Help me swing my players away from clerics

[Calico_Jack73]

Simple... run a Midnight campaign. The only god is Izrador (think Sauron) since the Prime was sundered from the Outer Planes with the Dark God's fall. The other gods haven't had contact with the Prime in thousands of years. Simply put, there are no divine casters unless you serve Izrador.

 

[S'mon]

That is a great idea ... if you have many of the same kind of thing (like wizards) guiding them towards specialization keeps things more interesting for all involved! In this case, by making them spontaneous casters they will have a limited number of spells known (you can use the varient in UA or the one suggested in the DMG to just use the sorcerer's progression).

At the very least, it will offer _some_ change if you make this a rule from the get-go.

Glad you liked it. I give Divine casters the same number of spells/day they get normally (ie less than Sorcerer) and same number for spells known (ie more & earlier than Sorcerers), but without the high-stat bonuses for spells known, except that Rangers & Paladins can get up to 1 extra spell known/level for high stats (to deal with the 0s on their spells/day listing). It works to my satisfaction, the 2 divine casters in the party don't appear notably underpowered.

 

[Quasqueton]

You know, I've heard this concept that clerics are better fighters than real fighters, but I just haven't seen it in real play.

In one game, I played a dwarf cleric. He did decently in combat, but the PC fighter rocked. My cleric never was equal to the fighter. There was at least one adventure where my cleric had run out of spells, but the fighter could just kept going and going.

In my current game, there is a barbarian 1/cleric 6 and a fighter 6. Though the barb/cleric does well in combat (and was the primary frontliner before the straight fighter joined the group), the fighter does as well or better. Two attacks/round, cleave, whirlwind, etc. makes the fighter a powerhouse in melee. And in this case, the cleric even has a higher Strength. And both characters use a greatsword.

In both games, the cleric was and is vital to the groups' overall success -- keeps them patched up and has plenty of buffs and protections for support. But in straight up fighting, the fighters stand a head taller.

Quasqueton

 

[diaglo]

edit: increase AC and the chance to miss opponents with concealment or cover.

use ranged attacks against the Clerics. also what system did you use to generate stats? many times clerics using point buy will cause one stat to be weak....Dex being one as well as Int...

make the low number of skill points hurt esp forcing them to use crossclass skills.


keep track of how the clerics are gaining spells. they are only allowed a set number per day...and must pray/whatever to regain them at a set time.

disrupt their prayers or rituals.

Henry is right...what edition are you using? buffs went down in duration for 3.11ed for Workgroups.

 

[ForceUser]

You know, I've heard this concept that clerics are better fighters than real fighters, but I just haven't seen it in real play.

In one game, I played a dwarf cleric. He did decently in combat, but the PC fighter rocked. My cleric never was equal to the fighter. There was at least one adventure where my cleric had run out of spells, but the fighter could just kept going and going.

In my current game, there is a barbarian 1/cleric 6 and a fighter 6. Though the barb/cleric does well in combat (and was the primary frontliner before the straight fighter joined the group), the fighter does as well or better. Two attacks/round, cleave, whirlwind, etc. makes the fighter a powerhouse in melee. And in this case, the cleric even has a higher Strength. And both characters use a greatsword.

In both games, the cleric was and is vital to the groups' overall success -- keeps them patched up and has plenty of buffs and protections for support. But in straight up fighting, the fighters stand a head taller.

Quasqueton

Cleric combat power comes late. When my cleric of Pelor was buffed to the gills with extended magic vestment on his armor and shield, extended greater magic weapon on his mace (3.0 version), shield of faith, divine favor, divine power, and righteous might, sure, he was a bag of own. But all that buffing doesn't negate the clean strength of a straight fighter, though it might match it for the duration of the buffs.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Sik a Beholder on them. All the magic in the world isn't much use to ya when you are standing in the middle of a Beholder's Anti-Magic cone and getting chomped on. If you are playing in the Forgotten Realms use that Beholder variant with the really long barbed tongue... that way the Beholder doesn't have to drop the Anti-Magic to attack.

 

[Darklone]

Cleric combat power comes late. When my cleric of Pelor was buffed to the gills with extended magic vestment on his armor and shield, extended greater magic weapon on his mace (3.0 version), shield of faith, divine favor, divine power, and righteous might, sure, he was a bag of own. But all that buffing doesn't negate the clean strength of a straight fighter, though it might match it for the duration of the buffs.

Not so sure about that... my 2 clerics in the group scarcely use more than one buff spell each per combat (ok, one has one level of barbarian). But they still do in melee as good as the fightertypes.

 

[diaglo]

another tactic is hit and run.

cleric's usually wear medium or hvy armor. which affects movement.

so hit them with barbarians and monks. hit and run with faster movement critters.

 

[ForceUser]

Not so sure about that... my 2 clerics in the group scarcely use more than one buff spell each per combat (ok, one has one level of barbarian). But they still do in melee as good as the fightertypes.

As a rule, I assume that the cleric-types have worse base physical stats than the fighter-types, which buffing then offsets. Obviously, the cleric-barbarian probably has good physical stats.

 

[MarauderX]

hm... most of these options seem extreme IMO. I agree with clerics being too easy to be the most powerful, so I limited them a tad in the game I DM, and none of the players want a cleric because of it.

Try eliminating a domain spell and taking away some of the few skill points they have. Also limit the weapons they can use back to bludegeoning only per OD&D. Rules munchkins will jump ship on the class, even if you include getting the domain back after 5 or so levels.

Or you can adopt anti-cleric tactics until the players become frustrated with the class and diversify.