Help me understand this CR (my players --OUT)

[Ovinomancer]

I was flipping through my MM2, looking for encounters for my players, when I came across the Orcwort. As I tend to read the description of the monsters first and then look at the stat block, I was stunned to find that the Wortlings are CR 3 while the Orcwort itself is CR 20!!!

The concept behind this creature would be great for my campaign, but the disparity in the creature vs its podlings is astounding. At what level would this possibly be a good encounter? The wortlings are great for 5-6 level, but the Orcwort is a no go there. At 17-19 level, the Orcwort is good, but the wortlings are a waste of time.

On a secondary note, why is the Orcwort CR 20? True, it can be vilely dangerous within its reach, had loads of HP, but it only moves 10', and has no ranged abilities. Technically, 1st level characters who are forewarned about the menace could easily stand back and pepper it with arrows until dead. It only has an AC of 12 and DR 5/-. Sure it would take 200 or so arrows, but the XP should be fantastic.

With this in mind, I want to run this beasty at player level 5. Apply that wonderful ENWorld magic to my problem and help me come up with a suitable fix to this beastie that would be fun and challenging! Thanks...

 

[Ferrix]

You can always lower the effective CR if the players are well prepared for their encounter and know how to easily exploit it's weakness (mobility) and avoid it's nasty bits (entangling, poison, etc.). The other idea is to use the wortlings so they attempt to herd the characters towards the big nasty.

Other than that, yeah there is a massive difference in CR (and I can easily see how the CR for the Orcwort is a bit too high). No other suggestions here really.

Also note that arrows aren't the greatest idea against this thing (half damage from piercing weapons). A better idea would be fire of some kind.

 

[kolikeos]

almost all the creatures in MM2 are underpowerd (or over challenge-rated)

oh, and you can count on your players to read every last word

 

[Saeviomagy]

You can always lower the effective CR if the players are well prepared for their encounter and know how to easily exploit it's weakness (mobility) and avoid it's nasty bits (entangling, poison, etc.). The other idea is to use the wortlings so they attempt to herd the characters towards the big nasty.

Sure, if they know through something other than their own efforts. If they go through and find out by themselves, I'd give them the whole amount.

Unfortunately if a level 1 character defeats a cr 20, that's "-" on the table, or GM's discretion.

 

[Numion]

MM2 has some really wonky CRs. Like that CR 26 giant - no flight or real ranged power. Big dumb monsters like that should rarely have CRs of over 15, tops.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

MM2 has some really wonky CRs. Like that CR 26 giant - no flight or real ranged power. Big dumb monsters like that should rarely have CRs of over 15, tops.

If the characters can (effectively) fly and use ranged weapons, that`s definitely true - but imagine a dungeon (that for some unknown reason manages to get a big giant into it) where the characters encounter it - they can`t fly out of its reach, and hammering it with ranged attacks also want work.
Maybe the encounter would need an EL adjustment, but such creatures are in fact extremely difficult to adjucate - on open space, they are easy targets, in tight dungeons, they could slaughter the party.
Maybe in a MM3 (or MM4) they would need to create "situation specific CRs" - one CR for aquatic areas, one for open, one for underground/indoor. Or at least incorporate some guidelines about it...