Help me use Power Attack

[Rel]

I've been playing 3E for a couple of years now, mostly as a DM but some as a player. I still have a hard time deciding when a character (either PC or NPC) should be using Power Attack.

Right now I'm playing a Ranger 1/Cleric 4 with Power Attack, Improved Shield Bash and Shield Charge as my feats. His main combat style is to use spells for buffing beforehand (when possible) and then to TWF with a pair of spiked shields or (more recently) a Holy longsword and a spiked shield. Whenever he gets a chance, he executes a Shield Charge.

I'm getting plenty of mileage from Improved Shield Bash and Shield Charge which are both fun and effective. But I never Power Attack. Considering that it occupies one of my precious feat slots, I can't help but feel like I should be using it.

My problem is that the risk of not hitting almost never seems worth the benefit of the increased damage. Right now, my attack bonus is not high enough to make me absolutely certain of hitting, even if I charge, even if my opponent is flat footed. Should I just Power Attack anyway and hope for the best?

While I'm at it, I'd be interested in hearing any feat recommendations for when I make 6th level. Divine Might would seem a good choice, but I only have a +1 Cha bonus. I've been leaning toward Craft Arms and Armor. It seems like a good option because I have doubts that I'm ever going to come across any magical spiked shields.

 

[hammymchamham]

I can think of 2 situations to use power attack, against a low AC target (in comparison to your attack bonus) or against something you need a 20 to hit on anyway.

 

[Darklone]

Yeah, Power Attack becomes horribly effective at higher levels if you fight low AC high hitpoints monsters. Right now? Use it to destroy doors or with some True Strike effects. But you're right, it's hardly ever worth it with TWF.

Btw Rel... two shields?? (sigh)

You do know the shield AC boni don't stack, right?

 

[MadScientist]

I currently play a Barb2/Ftr2 with the Power Attack feet and I use it all the time. In the right situations it can massively ramp up your damage output. The key is to use it when the roll you need to hit your opponent is pretty low. This happens against low AC opponents (duh) but can also happen with moderate AC opponents if you can get a bunch of situational attack bonuses (flanking, charge, higher ground, etc.)

Generally if I need to roll less than a 10 to hit, I start thinking Power Attack. One thing you can do is down load a melee combat calculator and play around with Power Attacking different AC's to get a feel of where your average damage output is improved.

Here is a link to SpikeyFreaks excellent damage calculator done in MS Excel. SpikeyFreaks Combat Calculator

 

[Rel]

Btw Rel... two shields?? (sigh)

You do know the shield AC boni don't stack, right?

Hey, Darklone. Good to hear from you. As a brief aside, I haven't fallen off the face of the earth and I do still intend to finish my Story Hour. But December was an astoundingly crappy month in many respects.

I know the two shield thing seems wonky at first. But it has been a lot of fun and makes for an incredibly flexible character. My combat options are many and varied and can occasionally produce some neat effects, especially in concert with the other characters. On a given round I can:

Make a single attack with one shield and retain the AC bonus from the other one. This is especially helpful when I Shield Charge because I'm losing 2 points of AC for the Charge.

Or I can make two shield bash attacks in the same round. For added fun, I bash once, knocking my opponent back 5 feet because of Improved Shield Bash. Then I take a 5 foot step up to him and do it again. This is extra fun if there is a cliff nearby. It is also great when working in concert with the Psi Warrior in the party who has a reach weapon, Combat Reflexes and Stand Still.

Being able to move your opponents around like that generates extra attacks of opportunity for the Psi Warrior and in some cases I can push opponents into position for the Wizard to hit them with area effect spells.

 

[Jeremy]

Well as to the second question, I'd say if you've already got shield charge, you might want Divine Shield instead of Divine Might, Divine Shield will give you your CHA bonus as an enhancement bonus on your shield for both offense and defense. Though until you get shield expert, you'll only be able to benefit from one in any given round (remember, when you shield bash you lose your shield bonus to AC unless you have shield expert). But that seems a better deal than just charisma bonus to damage. Especially if you use eagle's splendor to get your charisma up. You could have a +3 shield that works as a +3 weapon when you shield charge.

 

[Darklone]

Hey, Darklone. Good to hear from you. As a brief aside, I haven't fallen off the face of the earth and I do still intend to finish my Story Hour. But December was an astoundingly crappy month in many respects.

Agreed. Don't apologize for anything, I understand you. Lela is going to kill me soon if I don't move my PBeMs ahead

I know the two shield thing seems wonky at first. But it has been a lot of fun and makes for an incredibly flexible character. My combat options are many and varied and can occasionally produce some neat effects, especially in concert with the other characters. On a given round I can:...

Nice tactics. Btw, did some research and remembered a guy who actually did fight with two shields... But those shields had long blades at the edges and resembled more some plate armoured gauntlets like some Roman gladiators had... Make those blades retractable and play Wolverine

Btw. Check the Fury in the Wastelands orc source book from Kenzer for Kalamar... I think there I saw shield blades.

 

[Dingleberry]

I have my low-level barbarian Power Attack at +2 whenever he's raging - mostly so his attack bonus never changes.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I've been playing 3E for a couple of years now, mostly as a DM but some as a player. I still have a hard time deciding when a character (either PC or NPC) should be using Power Attack.

I've got an 11th level fighter that uses Power Attack quite often, and is really built around that as a main focus (along with Cleave and Greate Cleave - he's a bruiser first and foremost).

For your charcter right now, I can't see much use for Power Attack in most cases - your Attack bonus can't be much more than +6 or +7, and it's tough to give up much at that level.

It will become more useful as you get up to the high single digits and low double digits in levels.

My fighter's main feats are Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, and Improved Critical. He's focused/specialized with a scimitar, which is also Keen for that 12-20 crit range.

It's tough to give up any bonus to hit when you could lose a chance at confirming the (in this case, frequent) crit threats, however it's worth it in several situations.

I typically will power attack where I think a roll of 7 or better will still hit. My Fighter has a +19 to hit, so that means if the enemy has an AC 20, I'd power attack for 6 or 7.

I'll also be more likely to Power Attack if I am only getting a standard action attack - if the only attack I get is at +19, I might as well take some off the top. If I have full round of three attacks, that last +9 one is unlikely to hit, so I'll be more likely to hold off.

I ESPECIALLY power attack if I can manouever myself into a position with several opponents that I think could go down with a successful crit. As an example, we had a fight with several flunky rogues whom I guessed where in the 7th-8th level range. That means they probably had 35-45 hitpoints each. On a crit with full power attack, my fighter could do up to 52 points of damage (minimum 42) with one swing. If I crit and take the one rogue down, I keep going at full attack bonus.

I moved into a flanked position (leaving myself vulnerable to sneak attack, and took two of three rogues down with crits on a full power attack. The third lived. The rogues didn't live long enough to sneak attack.

Another example from one of the PC's in my game (also 11th level fighter): They were fighting ghasts with around 24 HP. He was doing around 15 HP per attack, and there were a lot of them (the ghasts, that is). He ramped up his power attack, and suddenly he could move up to a ghast, kill it, and never worry about getting hit for the paralysis effect - or at teh worst, they'd move up get one attack, and be killed before the next round, when he'd have to deal with a full round attack of claw-claw-bite.

That's the key thing - if you can hit hardest, then maybe the enemy never gets the chance to hit back.

So, in short, Power Attack when:

1. You can still have a decent shot at hitting anyway.
2. You have the opportunity to take out a dangerous opponent quickly.
3. When you must move before attacking.
4. When it might buy you a chance to Cleave/Great Cleave. It's really fun to Cleave a whole bunch of 25-30 HP creatures. You can't do that often at high levels.

Don't Power Attack when:

1. You need as much attack bonus as possible.
2. When you are in position to take a Full Round Attack (or at least don't use as MUCH Power Attack).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

What about iterative attacks?