Help, My players don’t know how to play.

Asgorath

Explorer
Sorry, whaaat? It's hard for me to believe that young adults (not children) who have already played between two and four years still have troubles with basic stuff like reading a character sheet or use skills, when the latter is practically "roll d20, add a small number, ask the DM if it worked".

But then, if this is how they really are, please do everyone a favor and do NOT run a game at level 10-16! Hell, run a game at 1st level (if you worry about survivability, give them double HP as a courtesy) and do not level up until they understand the basics.

Seconding this, don't play high-level D&D with people who don't know the rules or how their characters work. Might be worth just starting from level 1 again, and keep them around levels 3-5 as that tends to be a sweet spot of having access to your subclass and a few powerful spells/abilities but nothing overly complicated. High-level spells can get really complicated, and everyone just has a ton of stuff to keep track of once you hit the "tier 3" level range.
 

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MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Looking at the replies, I note that many of us are recommending dealing with players who have made no effort to read and understand the rules by creating more material for them to read. Yes, cheat sheets and fancy character sheets that explain the mechanics can be useful learning aids--for players that want to make that effort.

Their is a large segment of the population that wont read a two page manual. Ever tried playing a board game with a group of non-"gamer" family or friends? A significant percentage are going to just zone out as your try to explain the rule. Many, many people will not buy a game (or will regret it and may not play it) if the rules don't fit on the back of the box.

Many people want to "learn by playing". These people should probably not play wizards and especially not clerics. There are experience players I've wanted to do violence to as they waste 20 minutes of everyone's time selecting spells to prepare after a long rest.

Also, why does it fall on the DM to hold the players hands. I see this as the other players' responsibility. It sounds like you are stuck with an entire group of players who don't know what they are doing. I highly recommend having at least one experienced player in the group to take some of the burden off of you.
 


Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I've had people who need help with it each time. They usually fall into a few categories with their own solutions.

New to the game (or new back to the game) but doing it on their own (slowly): Time solves these.

Bad at math: Suggest they write up their full bonuses on their character sheets. I had one of these in 3.0 with power attack, where you could take -X to hit and do +1.5(?)X damage with two handed weapons. It was painful until he did a little chart.

New to the game and someone else is doing it for them: Could be the DM, could be another player. Often I see this with a SO brought to a game by an experienced player who doesn't want to slow things down (or is embarrassed to). They never get an opportunity to learn so it's actually worse long term.
 

Bawylie

A very OK person
Been thinking on this since last night.

Seems like we have table pacing/management problems stemming from a large group and a few people who are bogging the game down with procedure.

What I’d be looking to do if I were in your shoes is 1.) reduce system admin time (that is time spent using the system versus time spent playing the game), 2.) simplify my task resolution systems, and 3.) reduce the amount of time between one player’s turn and their next turn. With 7 people, I’d like to hit any given player once every 7-10 minutes and no later than that.

For 1, Reduce System Admin Time, I’d have spell lists on a lined sheet of paper with the spell name, level, spell slots, and a page citation for fast lookup. I’d probably also put post-its in my PH as a bookmark to some of the signature spells. On your turn, if you’re casting a spell, the book had better be open to the spell you’re casting (or else you get a cantrip instead).

I’d also remove the attack roll entirely - skip straight to a damage roll. Since your players seem to have trouble with adding this sort of thing together, I’d also trade my static bonuses for dice; my long sword attack would deal 1d8 + 1d6 (reflecting my strength bonus of +3). Anyone can roll a pile of dice and add the numbers shown. (If you need more monster HP, that’s an easy adjustment).

Finally, as DM, I’m making sure the next player starts thinking on the current player’s turn. “Jim, you’re next after Pam, get ready. Pam, what do you do?”

For 2, Simplify Task Resolution, I’m rethinking all ability checks and Saving Throws. Probably getting rid of Skill Checks altogether and using the Saving Throw proficiency to indicate what abilities the adventurer is good at. Fighters get Strength and Constitution so instead of tracking 25 different skills, they’re just getting proficiency bonus to all Strength and Constitution checks and Saving Throws. You could do this as a static number or place a die on the character sheet. When I DM for kids, I put the dice on the character sheet. This might sound like some crazy adjustments but we’re trying to reduce the cognitive load on the player by doing everything the same - pick up and roll a pile of dice and then add them up.

For 3, Reduce Time Between Turns, this is largely on the DM to push the pacing. But, if everyone is skipping an attack roll, have their spells ready, and don’t have to cross-reference an ability score and a proficiency bonus to a skill, we’ve done half the work already. Just need to make sure turn order is very clear and have the Next Player thinking on the Current Player’s turn.

I’ve run 7 players, it’s hard. I’ve run newbies and kids. It’s hard. I’ve done combos of skill levels. I’ve done attack rolls only (and static damage) and damage rolls only (with monster AC as a damage threshold). I’ve done Cantrips Only with spell levels adding damage or targets. Basically, whatever gets to the simplest system for the group. My preference is d20 + some other die. And practice faster pacing.
 

Dispater

Explorer
A DM doesn't have to put up with this for years. You tell them to learn the basic rules until next time or there won't be a game.

If it carries on, just start a a new campaign with the 2 players who actually know the rules and build on that.

RPG's are a game. If I play with someone who can't be bothered to learn the rules of a game, I'm not going to play with them for long. Players are expected to learn the rules after a few sessions (which is why the core rulebook in D&D is called 'PLAYER'S handbook'). Unless otherwise stated, it is an implicit part of the social contract when you sit down with RPGs.
 

Scary

Explorer
I have 6 players. Two understand how to play. The others have been playing from between two years and four years. I think that is adequate time to get a grip on the most basic rules. I still find myself reminding them how to calculate attack bonus when it is printed on their character sheet. Even helping the figure out saves and damage. I should be collecting a check from them for the extra work beyond running the game. Any advice will be read and appreciated.
Hello Wiseblood, can we please hookup and talk on Discord, I would like to show you some tools I have to help players play the game. They simplify combat somewhat and helps speed things up.
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
Hello Wiseblood, can we please hookup and talk on Discord, I would like to show you some tools I have to help players play the game. They simplify combat somewhat and helps speed things up.

Why not just share here so a bunch of lurkers (and others like myself) can also benefit from your tips?
 



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