Help Twinking Out a 12th Level Monk

mattcolville said:
Ok, what's a Ring of Continuous Enlarge?

Ah, nevermind. It's a ring with Enlarge cast in it, and the Continuous Spell Effect. DMG page 285!

I'm surprised no one has mentioned picking up one lvl of sorc for enlarge, etc. my briefly lived sorc1/monkX opened up every fight with an enlarge. of course he was already large so went to huge, but it does come in handy :D
 

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darthkilmor said:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned picking up one lvl of sorc for enlarge, etc. my briefly lived sorc1/monkX opened up every fight with an enlarge. of course he was already large so went to huge, but it does come in handy :D

Mixing in arcane spellcasting with your monkishness can be interesting. On the one hand, you gain more special abilities to mix in with your hand-to-hand, and on the other hand your advancement isn't as good as if you'ld gone pure monk.

I'm enjoying playing a Wizard/Monk/Arcane Fist (Complete Arcane prestige class) in a odd mix of 3.0/3.5 at the moment. You could go with Sorcerer/Monk as well, either choosing Arcane Fist again, or going for the feat in PH2 which mixes the two classes. In either case, Practiced Spellcaster is almost required.
 

Infiniti2000 said:
Three points of high debate:

1. gauntlets - are they weapons or not? I treat them as weapons.

2. Improved Natural Attack - can a monk take it for his unarmed strike? I say no.

3. Can a monk with natural weapons (not considering unarmed strikes) "add" them to a flurry? I say no.

Your DM will need to respond to these three questions if you plan to consider using any of them in your character. That said, a githzerai monk has a certain appeal. I think a half-celestial makes a very good monk, too, but the LA hit is just too high. See if the DM allows the LA buyback variant.

1. Agreed.

2. You say no, Wizards says yes. Official rules are not debateable, that are house-rules otherwise.

3. As offhand attacks, yes. Again, this is an official rule.
 

Iscariot said:
2. You say no, Wizards says yes. Official rules are not debateable, that are house-rules otherwise.

3. As offhand attacks, yes. Again, this is an official rule.

Note that the "Official" source for these two is the FAQ, not Errata. Whether you consider the FAQ to be "Official" is entirely up to you.
 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned picking up one lvl of sorc for enlarge, etc. my briefly lived sorc1/monkX opened up every fight with an enlarge. of course he was already large so went to huge, but it does come in handy

Actually, I mentioned that tactic in my post about my Githzerai Monk...although it was with psionic Enlarge, not the arcane version.

As for the Monks being allowed to take INA question being "official", WotC has published at least one Half-Orc Monk build with INA (in PHB II, p51) . That, I would think, would put to rest the "officialness" of the opinion...except that for whatever reason, the Monk in question 1) is first level, thus does not have the +4 BAB prereq, and 2) is first level, thus has one too many feats- 3 instead of 2. Still, obvious errors aside, at least one person who worked on that book considered it official enough to contemplate it for the build.

I've said this of WotC and other publishers as well- those guys really need some better proofreaders, perhaps even some Continuity Editors!
 
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I'm using the most current version of HeroForge and I'm trying to figure out why it thinks that being a Monk means I get, like, a +14 to jump. It's inexplicable. Might be a bug, but I wouldn't mind if it were right. :)
 

Chances are, you've got enough levels to get +30' of speed (+4 per 10' of speed over 30'), and you've probably got 5 ranks in tumble. That's a +14 bonus to jump.
 

If you want a monk-ish character who can do an incredible amount of damage, have amazing AC, and do it without a lot of equipment, go for the Enlightened Fist from Complete Arcane.

I have an 11th level one that I stopped playing because I felt the build was to powerful. (Mainly due to one spell (Wraithstrike), but the DM didn't seem inclined to ban or errata the spell.) Admittedly, this build would be difficult to play from level 1, but starting at lvl 12 it's a powerhouse.

The build I used: Human Mnk2/Sor4/Enlightened Fist 6
- on 32 point buy, set your Charisma to 16, Wisdom and Int to 10, then buy all your other stats up to 14.
- bump your charisma at lvls 4, 8, and 12

Feats (and the level I took them at)

1) Practiced Spellcaster (sorcerer)
1) Combat Casting (human bonus feat)
1) Improved Unarmed Strike (monk bonus feat)
1) Stunning Fist (monk bonus feat) - 10 uses at 12 lvl with this build
2) Deflect Arrows or Combat Reflexes (monk bonus feat)
3) Empower Spell
6) Ascetic Mage (You now use your charisma instead fo Wisdom for AC bonus, sorcerer levels stack with monk levels for AC bonus, and you can sacrifice a spell to gain a bonus [equal to spell level] to attack and damage with all unarmed strikes for 1 round) - from Complete Adventurer
9) Arcane Strike (you can sacrifice a spell to gain a bonus on attacks equal to it's level, and bonus D4's on damage equal to it's level for one level) - Complete Warrior
12) whatever you want

This is the gear I bought at 10th level with 49,000 gp

Cloak of Charisma +2
Gloves of Dex +2
Amulet of Health +2
Vest of Resistance +2
Hewards Haversack
Monks Belt
Boots of Speed
Potions of Enlarge Self and Lesser Restoration

With 61k, I'd increase the cloak of charisma to a +4, giving you a total Charisma of 23

At this point, you have the following abilities

Normal AC: 28 (+6 Greater Mage Armor, +6 from Charisma, +3 from Dex, +2 from monk/sorcerer/fist levels, +1 from monks belt)

AC Buffs: Shield (+4 AC), Alter Self to Troglodyte (+6 natural armor) or Polymorph to Green Hag (+11 Natural Armor, but lose 2 points of Dex, for a net +10 AC). Max AC = 42, plus any deflect bonuses or other AC buffs you can scrounge up.

Caster level: 12, spells as an 8th level sorcerer

Base Unarmed Damage: 2d6+2 (as a 13th level monk, due to monks belt)
Attack bonus: +9/+4
Flurry: +7/+7/+2
with Haste: +8/+8/+8/+3

Doesn't seem like much, until you add in the spell and class boosts:

Before your attack:

Free Action - activate boots of speed

Free action - activate Fist of Energy (burst) at a cost of one stunning fist use): +1d6 fire/electric damage, plus an additional 1d10 on a crit.

Free action: sacrifice a 4th level spell to your Arcane Fist feat: +4 attack, +4d4 damage per strike

Swift Action: Cast Wraithstrike - now all your unarmed strikes are touch attacks that ignore DR, natural armor, and armor. (If you don't cast Wraithstrike you can instead sacrifice a spell to your Ascetic Mage feat for a bonus to attack and damage, but Wraithstrike is usually more effective.)

Arcane Fist: spend a stunning fist use to cast an Empowered Shocking Grasp during your attack, for another (5d6)x1.5 damage on a single attack.

Final results: touch attacks at +12/+12/+12/+7 that do 2d6+2+1d6+4d4 per hit, and an empowered shocking grasp on one of the hits. Average damage is 22 per hit, and an average of 113 points if all strikes land, plus the shocking grasp.

This goes up even more if you have polymorphed into a Green Hag or Annis Hag (base 3d6 unarmed damage, plus your strength is now 25 instead of 14, plus potential natural weapon attacks and Rend in addition to the flurry).

Big downside: You are burning through 2 or 3 spells a round (fist of energy, arcane strike, wraithstrike) and 1 or 2 stunning fist uses a round (arcane strike, fist of energy). So for 1-3 combats you are a god. After that you are decidely sub-par, although you still have a good AC.)

You can use spells to increase your combat and "cool move" options - Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement, Jump, etc.

It's a complicated build, and has a definite weakness if you expect multiple fights in a row without rest, but until that point you are a very powerful melee combatent for your level.
 

Iscariot said:
3. As offhand attacks, yes. Again, this is an official rule.
Wait... so you're saying that a monk polymorphed into a green hag could make a full unarmed attack (feet, elbows, etc.) and also make 2 claw attacks as secondary natural attacks?

I don't actually see anything wrong with it, but that definitely ups the power level of monks in any form that has natural attacks. Hmm... are there any LA +0 races with natural attacks?

Edit: thought of an interesting combo for this -- monk/druid. Wild shape into something like a dire lion with a big pile of natural attacks and then take a full unarmed attack in addition to it. You'd probably want to pick up multiattack for that build, though.

Are there any feats/PrC's that would help combine monk and druid? It would work great with Vow of Poverty, but unless there's something that allows the multiclassing, you'd have to take all your monk levels at the beginning.
 
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I just quickly scanned previous comments... so my suggestions aren't based on what you've posted in this thread... I'll just give you the straight talk about high level monks from my experience. I have a 16th level VoP Human Monk.

VoP is VERY GOOD for Monks. I think it matches very well. Some exalted feats help increase damage and stun DC vs Evil and there is the feat Intuitive attack where Wisdom is used instead of Str for attack rolls. Those 5 DR magic and evil REALLY help to manage survival.

A well built VoP means you don't need good Str or Dex. I manage with 10 Str and 14 Dex only. Damage is increased with Impr. Natural attack and Exalted Feats. It works best if your able to significantly boost Wisdom... Wisdom gives you Attack, AC Defense and Stun DC. VoP helps boost in higher levels abilities.

As for levels... a straight pure Monk is best. 12th lvl you get 2d6 damage. 13th level you get Spell Resistance which works best if your a pure monk. Most Prestige classes won't give you anything as good as damage and SR.

As for Race it really depends if you need more feats (human), dex (elf, Gith) or various abilities. Its very background dependent. I loved the idea of not having to chose from a Strong Monk vs Dextrous Monk... mine deals damage with training and divine sponsorship.

Currently my character has AC 36 / 3d8+3 damage (+2d6 vs Evil) / SR 26 / 139 hp / +7 Wis
 

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