Help w/future assassin levels..

[Felix]

Well, due to some friends changing their classes,

...

I've never played arcane or spellwarp, I'm pretty new to 3.0+ D&D as it is but this sounds like a fun build. Help me break it :-D

Would you consider telling us the style of character you'd like, and allow us to suggest builds? Your DM earlier expressed frustration at the amount of character altering and the number of classes you level in; don't you think this build will do the same thing?

If you're going for a specific feel for a character, would you object if it was single-classed?

 

[trippies]

well...

Well, with the first build I was going to try to maximize sneak damage, but we already have a stealthy party member, and a monk build, to avoid fighting over items and just lots of the same. I thought the 'magic assassin' I mentioned earlier was a really cool idea (admittedly, it wasn't mine).

I came up with a variation to it, but I'm not so sure it works, my biggest problem is that I can't find where the issue lies....

What I came up with was, spellthief1/wizard4/shadow dancer1/ultimate magus8/spellwarp sniper5

I would have to take ultimate magus at 6-7 in order to get high enough level for perform dancing 5, I think my problem lies in the requisite for ultimate magus

able to cast lvl 1 spontaneous, lvl 2 memorization (memorization is covered already by wizard, but i don't think spellthief is).

With that said, I don't see how the build works with assassin/arcane trickster combination instead

I REALLY like the spellwarp sniper class

 

[Felix]

Well, with the first build I was going to try to maximize sneak damage, but we already have a stealthy party member, and a monk build, to avoid fighting over items and just lots of the same. I thought the 'magic assassin' I mentioned earlier was a really cool idea (admittedly, it wasn't mine).

I came up with a variation to it, but I'm not so sure it works, my biggest problem is that I can't find where the issue lies....

What I came up with was, spellthief1/wizard4/shadow dancer1/ultimate magus8/spellwarp sniper5

I would have to take ultimate magus at 6-7 in order to get high enough level for perform dancing 5, I think my problem lies in the requisite for ultimate magus

able to cast lvl 1 spontaneous, lvl 2 memorization (memorization is covered already by wizard, but i don't think spellthief is).

With that said, I don't see how the build works with assassin/arcane trickster combination instead

I REALLY like the spellwarp sniper class

If it's Spellwarp Sniper that you like, then all you need is Rogue1/Wizard5.

5 more levels will take you to the end of Spellwarp Sniper. If your DM allowed Sudden Raystrike to qualify as Sneak Attack dice, then you could move right on in to Arcane Trickster. You'd end up with Sneak Attack +5d6, Sudden Raystrike +2d6, a caster level of 19 and 9th level spells as a Wizard. It also means that your spell progression will only lag behind a single-classed Wizard by 1 level.

What's the attraction to the Shadowdancer and Ultimate Magus levels? You may look at the long term gain of 15th level casting as a Wizard and 10th level casting at a Spellthief, but in doing so you miss out on 8th and 9th level spells. For a primary caster this is rather meaningful. You'll also be playing catchup in the teen levels: at 10th level you'll have a Wizard caster level of 6 and a Spellthief caster level of 5; 3rd level Wizard spells and still hanging on to 2nd level Spellthief spells. Not to mention that Spellthief spell progression is somewhat retarded relative to the Sorcerer to make up for the Sneak Attack special ability they gain, but you'll be losing out on.

I'd recommend going either in the Spellwarp Sniper/Arcane Trickster direction, or the Wizard/Sorcerer/Ultimate Magus direction. Trying to mix the two may leave you spread a little too thin.

 

[Winding Road]

A spellthief can't cast 1st level spells until 4th level (assuming good Charisma), so you would not qualify for Ultimate Magus until at least character level 8 (spellthief 4/wizard 3.) Is Ultimate Magus really needed for your build? The double casting is fun, but it delays your entry into Spellwarp Sniper, the class you said you were primarily interested in.

How does this progression sound?

1: Rogue 1 (Feats: Point Blank Shot (H), Improved Initiative (1); sneak attack +1d6)
2: Rogue 1/spellthief 1 (Sneak attack +2d6)
3: Rogue 1/spellthief 1/wizard 1 (Feat: Precise Shot (3))
4: Rogue 1/spellthief 1/wizard 2
5: Rogue 1/spellthief 1/wizard 3
6: Rogue 1/spellthief 1/wizard 4 (Feat: Master Spellthief (6))

Master Spellthief is from Complete Scoundrel. It allows your spellthief and wizard levels to stack for caster levels and spell stealing, and lets you cast your wizard spells in light armor.

7: Rogue 1/spellthief 1/wizard 5 (Can cast 3rd-level spells; qualifies for SWS)
8: Rogue 1/spellthief 1/wizard 5/spellwarp sniper 1
9: Rogue 1/spellthief 1/wizard 5/spellwarp sniper 2 (Feat: Danger Sense (9)

Danger Sense is from Complete Adventurer. It allows you to reroll your initiative once a day.

10: Rogue 1/spellthief 1/wizard 5/spellwarp sniper 3

This build gives you decent casting (3rd-level spells, with a caster level of 9), light armor, the ability to steal spells, and the perks from SWS. Its major weakness is getting the sneak attack off; it can't flank with spells, so its options for denying Dex are limited. You have a good chance of getting your first round in while the opponent is flat-footed, but after that, you may be in trouble.

 

[trippies]

my dm will NOT allow raystrike to work as sneak...


***As for the rogue build, why can't you flank with spells? I thought with ranged touch attack spells, you can flank/sneak attack...the main reason i wanted shadow was hips+ray = sneak guaranteed?

would the same build work like this?

10: Rogue 1/spellthief 1/wizard 5/spellwarp sniper 3
20: rogue1/spellthief1/wizard5/spellwarpsniper5/arcanetrickster5/wizard(2more), or rogue for evasion and extra 1d6 sneak?

at that point I could get split-ray metamagic feat and get lots of sneak damage on top of spellsteal?

Would metamagic feat be worth taking in this build? I'm worried with wizard 5 my spell selection is going to be rather low, 4th lvl

Also, this campaign would be taking place in ravenloft, with those last 2 levels, should i go
wizard to 7 for extra spells
rogue for evasion/1d6 sneak
some class I could qualify for that would help me hit undead?

 

[Felix]

As for the rogue build, why can't you flank with spells?

Flanking, SRD
When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus...​

You can't flank with ranged spells because you're not making a melee attack. You would be able to flank with Shocking Grasp because it's a melee touch attack.

Also, this campaign would be taking place in ravenloft
...
some class I could qualify for that would help me hit undead?

Again, you're in Ravenloft: Sneak Attack is going to be nearly useless. You can do a lot of things with multiclass Wizard/somethings, and even some neat things with Arcane/Divine multiclassing. Are you sure you won't regret building so heavily towards Sneak Attack when it likely won't come into play much?

 

[trippies]

DM kind've relieved me and told me that while undead will certainly be there, they won't be so frequent that I won't be able to use my abilities.

How would i ensure flat footed? just have the best init?

Also part of the reason i wanted to focus more on spellwarp than on arcane, since sudden raystrike is non-sneak damage. And I *thought* with hips+ray=sneak