help with CR of a trap and was it fair?

[whorobbedme]

Rule 0.
The DM is always right.

He rolled poorly and failed, exploring dungeons is deadly, and failure can get you killed.
The dice represent those variables.

It wasn't unfair, it was actually and easy save (crowbar to the doors, strength check to open it up, more rope, etc. etc.)

Also, tell the DM nice touch with the acid.
Liked that very much.

the trap door to the pit was blocked off with a portcullas that could only be opened by twisting an iron statue with a str check of DC30. and that needed to be done 3 times..
it was a very nice trap indeed

 

[whorobbedme]

well if the guy was laying unconscious in the pool of acid he would be breathing it in, true? just as if someone had fallin into a pit trap, bein reduced to 0hp and then the pit filled with water to drown its victums. liqued was still used.
would you place a further +5CR on the trap if the player involved had protection from acid but drownd in it?

 

[Dozen]

well if the guy was laying unconscious in the pool of acid he would be breathing it in, true?

He's still turning into goo faster. A lot faster as well, since he's submerged.

would you place a further +5CR on the trap if the player involved had protection from acid but drownd in it?

No. I'd actually reduce this hypothetical situational CR because I'm probably aware he's impervious to acid, taking the acid's CR, leaving the drowning hazard's and the pit's. And that's only if he's knocked senseless from the fall, you don't normally drown in knee-deep liquid. And all of those are only if you change the CR based on every little ability your players may have and may also possibly have active just at the right moment, the usefulness of which I can't deny, but still, it's the kind of overkill only my sort of DMs are willing to put up with.

 

[whorobbedme]

you'd actualy rob your players of xp for being prepared! my god what a lousy DM youd make lol.
the drowing hazzard CR would be more then the CR of the acid damage.
You can drown in an egg cup of water. the fact is you still have the chance of drowning from a 1st lvl player with 12hp, to a 20th lvl player 220hp.
The hazzard is still there and should be takin into account when the DM makes the trap, what your players do before they fall to its damgers is totaly up to them and shouldnt affect the CR in anyway no matter what lvl they are or what protection they have on them.

Liquid: Any trap that involves a danger of drowning is in this category. Traps employing liquid usually have the Never Miss and onset delay features.

 

[Dozen]

you'd actualy rob your players of xp for being prepared! my god what a lousy DM youd make lol.

1. I'm already a DM. 2. I don't base XP distribution solely on Encounter CR. Sorry about that He'd get bonus for foresight if he was prepared, tough how did he have any idea he would fall into a hole filled with acid in a few hours is beyond me, and amassing bonuses is just caution in a place where everything and everyone is out to murder you horribly. 3. That lol at the end completely ruins the impact, lose it. 4. You say that, yet you'd increase the CR when they are prepared for acid-based attacks but not for a drowning hazard? I've seen customers from stories on Not Always Right make more sense, and I'm pretty sure a big portion of those tales are rigged.

You can drown in an egg cup of water. the fact is you still have the chance of drowning from a 1st lvl player with 12hp, to a 20th lvl player 220hp.

Are you ignoring every second fact in each of your arguments on purpose? A character with 220 hit points is not going to get knocked out from falling down the pit to drown in knee-deep acid, for goodness' sake, there's no chance of drowning. Hell, anyone who has few enough hit points to get knocked out from the fall would dissolve faster than drown, it's basic math - being submerged in acid deals 10d6 damage, and when you're out cold, you have 0 hp or less! The character you're describing would need to have low enough max hp to get knocked out from a pitfall trap and acid contact, yet enough resistance to survive for a round in the negatives while having an acid bath! Nobody is going to universally change a trap's CR based on the off-chance someone like that exists in the campaign so the inattentive rogues who are not him would have the right to complain! This debate is just embarrassing you by this point. At least it should, and I hope so.

 

[whorobbedme]

On your point 4 there buddy, i was asking would you increase the CR.
I think your a bit blind to see where im coming from, so il leave you with one more bit from the rules on acid, read the end bit and we will leave it at that

[h=2]Acid[/h] Corrosive acids deals 1d6 points of damage per round of exposure, except in the case of total immersion (such as in a vat of acid), which deals 10d6 points of damage per round. An attack with acid, such as from a hurled vial or a monster's spittle, counts as a round of exposure.
The fumes from most acids are inhaled poisons. Those who are adjacent to a large body of acid must make a DC 13 Fortitude save or take 1 point of Constitution damage each round. This poison does not have a frequency, so a creature is safe as soon as it moves away from the acid.
Creatures immune to acid's caustic properties might still drown in it if they are totally immersed (see Drowning).

 

[Umbran]

Folks, a couple of you are starting to get snarky and personal. I hereby remind you that Rule #1 of EN World is "Keep it civil." As we go forward, please address the content of the post, not the person of the poster, or you will likely find yourself removed from the conversation entirely. If how we expect you to comport yourself is still not clear, please e-mail or PM the moderator of your choice to discuss it. Thank you.

 

[Dozen]

Folks, a couple of you are starting to get snarky and personal. I hereby remind you that Rule #1 of EN World is "Keep it civil." As we go forward, please address the content of the post, not the person of the poster, or you will likely find yourself removed from the conversation entirely. If how we expect you to comport yourself is still not clear, please e-mail or PM the moderator of your choice to discuss it. Thank you.

Understood. Will tone down. Sorry for your trouble.

I think your a bit blind to see where im coming from, so il leave you with one more bit from the rules on acid, read the end bit and we will leave it at that

Saw it before, rest assured. Please do read my posts in their entirety, then you'd know. I said already(in a tone the mods dislike, as the case may be) that while drowning in acid is possible, it is too bafflingly unlikely for anyone to have such a high acid resistance(or acid immunity) to shrug off the acid damage and low enough maximum hit point count to get knocked out at the same time. Increasing the CR based on the fact you can drown in acid in general doesn't make any sense, because only a chosen few kind of player characters could actually drown in this specific trap, like, say, those of Tiny size or smaller(so they are immersed in liquid a Medium creature would describe as knee-deep), or a char minmaxed specifically to resist acid damage.

On your point 4 there buddy, i was asking would you increase the CR.

I know. I assumed from your reactions that you believed increasing the CR is the right option. So if you aren't... well, then frankly I have no idea what we're really talking about anymore; in that case I suggest we hit the reset button and start over. If you do, conversely, the question under point 4 still stands.

 

[whorobbedme]

My apologies Dozen for being rude.
I just find it hard to see why drowning in water would have a higher CR then acid.
consider a trap ment to kill by drowning with water, now take out the water and put in acid. why would water have a higher CR?

 

[Jester David]

My apologies Dozen for being rude.
I just find it hard to see why drowning in water would have a higher CR then acid.
consider a trap ment to kill by drowning with water, now take out the water and put in acid. why would water have a higher CR?

The difference is drowning ignores hitpoints and will take you right to 0 then negatives and then kill. It's dangerous especially if you can't escape i.e. the flooding chamber. A pit ending in knee deep water is not really a drowning hazard and only a drowning hazard if already dying, in which case it was still the pit that did 90% of the killing.
Acid in this case is more dangerous in that you'll likely die from the damage well before the drowning rules take place.

Regardless, the point is moot. Your DM is unlikely to suddenly award a few extra thousand xp because "some people on the Internet" might think the trap is a higher CR.
The rogue died. That's sad. But arguing with the DM won't bring him back and will only cause hard feelings at the table.