Yep, the wiki. I've learned that some homebrew is fine for new DMs (such as designing their own world/story which I've been doing for years now) but designing or allowing new mechanics such as races is completely different and definitely requires more DM experience.
D&D 5E Help With Disruptive Players(?)
Yep, the wiki. I've learned that some homebrew is fine for new DMs (such as designing their own world/story which I've been doing for years now) but designing or allowing new mechanics such as races is completely different and definitely requires more DM experience.
jgsugden
Legend
When I encounter this problem, I respond by explaining that power gaming is a good way to get your PCs killed and ruin the game.
1.) When a PC Power Games, their PC is stronger than expected by the designers of the game in some way.
2.) To provide an interesting challenge, the DM responds with stronger threats (in some encounters, at least) to give that PC a challenge.
3.) However, the Power PC is usually not stronger in all ways. They often have some facet that is disproportionately strong, but have others that are relatively weak compared to that strength. For example, a high damage PC may not have high defenses (like AC or saves) that match their damage. Or, they may have huge damage per hit, but not a great chance to hit.
4.) The stronger foes the DM uses may not align to the strengths and weaknesses of the PCs, and that may result in a battle where a little bad luck puts that PC out of the battle - and then the rest of the party is overmatched.
This is why I see TPKs in Min/Max games far more often than in games without the Min/Max. To that end, I'd ask the player to consider different - story based - goals.
However, many players really enjoy building super powerful builds. There is no reason to deny them that opportunity - just target it outside of the campaign. I sometimes run *one shot* sessions where I encourage everyone to bring power game builds. This gives people a chance to exercise their brains on building strong PCs - and allows them to get it out of their system so that they can have more fun on the RP heavy campaigns.
1.) When a PC Power Games, their PC is stronger than expected by the designers of the game in some way.
2.) To provide an interesting challenge, the DM responds with stronger threats (in some encounters, at least) to give that PC a challenge.
3.) However, the Power PC is usually not stronger in all ways. They often have some facet that is disproportionately strong, but have others that are relatively weak compared to that strength. For example, a high damage PC may not have high defenses (like AC or saves) that match their damage. Or, they may have huge damage per hit, but not a great chance to hit.
4.) The stronger foes the DM uses may not align to the strengths and weaknesses of the PCs, and that may result in a battle where a little bad luck puts that PC out of the battle - and then the rest of the party is overmatched.
This is why I see TPKs in Min/Max games far more often than in games without the Min/Max. To that end, I'd ask the player to consider different - story based - goals.
However, many players really enjoy building super powerful builds. There is no reason to deny them that opportunity - just target it outside of the campaign. I sometimes run *one shot* sessions where I encourage everyone to bring power game builds. This gives people a chance to exercise their brains on building strong PCs - and allows them to get it out of their system so that they can have more fun on the RP heavy campaigns.
JonnyP71
Explorer
Yep, keep it simple to start with.
Oh and delete any bookmarks you might have to dndwiki, and promise yourself never to set eyes on that filth ever again. If any of your group ever tries using anything from it give them a glare so fierce it would make Demogorgon think twice about taking you on...
And remember. YOU are not the problem here, the Cleric player appears to be. She certainly needs a few games of 'core class/race combos only', and she needs to be told to shut up with regards to other players' characters. They are none of her business.
ClaytonCross
Kinder reader Inflection wanted
So just to be clear "Min/Maxing" is cutting off stats you don't intend to use and putting everything in "useful" stats to your character. This is done by everyone to some degree simply because you want to be good at one thing and don't care about another. What your players are doing is "power gaming" which is why they want to kill everything in one turn, want stats of 30, and compete to do the most damage.
To deal with power gaming at level 3, Here is my suggestion:
1. Look at there character sheet find what skills, proficiencies (including tools and instruments), and languages they have.
2. Create a dungeon full of traps set above anything they can possibly role BUT put hints, answers to riddles, tests that require them to use those proficiencies, languages, and skills. Put no enemies in the dungeon. At the end of the dungeon, separate a room with a mirror. When they touch the mirror they get sucked into each there own demi plan alone and .... each one sees themselves standing there... role initiative.
3. Have and ancient Copper dragon (Chaotic Good) snatch them out of there current quest and take them to the dungeon. If they back talk it, being Chaotic good it smacks once. If they fight it at level 3.... they may find they new character for next session (Track the damage they do to the dragon, but leave the health blank, what ever their final damage at the end of the battle, double it and that is/was the dragons health). If they disrespect it they may fine they don't have much health to survive the dungeon it just dropped them in. The dragon needs each them to complete the quest (something they will get when they fight themselves at full health at whatever health they have when they get to the mirror, win or lose, don't kill them, just make them face defeat face to face for real.) When they return to the dragon, he nods takes them back to where he got them. They get nothing but xp and confusion. If they back talk the Dragon about not getting a reward... he smacks them with another claw attack for disrespect. (He is saving the world some how and they have been drafted to help him but that does not mean he has to take there crap. Also, use option subdual damage to knock them out to the dragon can knock them to 0 without needing death saves, He knocks them out but he doesn't kill them. Its just a lesson in respect. There is a reason the dragon can't do this but he does have to explain himself to such insignificant beings who have earned no renowned.)
Why do this?
1. Making them use their other skills to get though a dungeon is a reminder there is more to D&D than combat damage.
2. Making them fight themselves literally makes their own strength there weakness and highlights that if they can do it .... you can do it.
3. Using a Chaotic Good over powered being demand there respect reminds them they can't always just get what they want and if they are "good" back talking all your NPCs then they don't have a leg to stand on trying to say your Chaotic Good character can't treat them like crap while saving the world. On top of that he proves your ability to always win escalation battles.
4. End the end they get nothing but XP. This is to highlight the story and experience was its own reward... you don't owe them anything else.
This is a lot of work to setup. If you do it, come back with what ever happens. How they handle will tell a lot bout the players. If might fix things, it might just make them mad. If they play an awesome session or 3 and the end result is that they are mad because they didn't rule the world, kill armies of monsters single handed, and bath in riches .... at level 3 .... I would have to say its who they are and you would be better with other players. They could play an have fun and care a little less about who does the most damage.
...That just my recommendation since out of game talking didn't work. Best of luck and feel free to alter the formula. Its more a concept then a rule to follow.
To deal with power gaming at level 3, Here is my suggestion:
1. Look at there character sheet find what skills, proficiencies (including tools and instruments), and languages they have.
2. Create a dungeon full of traps set above anything they can possibly role BUT put hints, answers to riddles, tests that require them to use those proficiencies, languages, and skills. Put no enemies in the dungeon. At the end of the dungeon, separate a room with a mirror. When they touch the mirror they get sucked into each there own demi plan alone and .... each one sees themselves standing there... role initiative.
3. Have and ancient Copper dragon (Chaotic Good) snatch them out of there current quest and take them to the dungeon. If they back talk it, being Chaotic good it smacks once. If they fight it at level 3.... they may find they new character for next session (Track the damage they do to the dragon, but leave the health blank, what ever their final damage at the end of the battle, double it and that is/was the dragons health). If they disrespect it they may fine they don't have much health to survive the dungeon it just dropped them in. The dragon needs each them to complete the quest (something they will get when they fight themselves at full health at whatever health they have when they get to the mirror, win or lose, don't kill them, just make them face defeat face to face for real.) When they return to the dragon, he nods takes them back to where he got them. They get nothing but xp and confusion. If they back talk the Dragon about not getting a reward... he smacks them with another claw attack for disrespect. (He is saving the world some how and they have been drafted to help him but that does not mean he has to take there crap. Also, use option subdual damage to knock them out to the dragon can knock them to 0 without needing death saves, He knocks them out but he doesn't kill them. Its just a lesson in respect. There is a reason the dragon can't do this but he does have to explain himself to such insignificant beings who have earned no renowned.)
Why do this?
1. Making them use their other skills to get though a dungeon is a reminder there is more to D&D than combat damage.
2. Making them fight themselves literally makes their own strength there weakness and highlights that if they can do it .... you can do it.
3. Using a Chaotic Good over powered being demand there respect reminds them they can't always just get what they want and if they are "good" back talking all your NPCs then they don't have a leg to stand on trying to say your Chaotic Good character can't treat them like crap while saving the world. On top of that he proves your ability to always win escalation battles.
4. End the end they get nothing but XP. This is to highlight the story and experience was its own reward... you don't owe them anything else.
This is a lot of work to setup. If you do it, come back with what ever happens. How they handle will tell a lot bout the players. If might fix things, it might just make them mad. If they play an awesome session or 3 and the end result is that they are mad because they didn't rule the world, kill armies of monsters single handed, and bath in riches .... at level 3 .... I would have to say its who they are and you would be better with other players. They could play an have fun and care a little less about who does the most damage.
...That just my recommendation since out of game talking didn't work. Best of luck and feel free to alter the formula. Its more a concept then a rule to follow.
I'm a little on the player's side as far has the bat thing. Theres nothing mechanically about thunderclap that gives the deafened condition. The problem is that the player didn't politely point that out and instead threw a fit. Talk to your players about how rules should be talked about at the table. I'm not sure what "getting mad at" is but it doesn't sound polite. Be open to listening to your players and if they reasonably point out a misreading of a rule, give it to them.
It wasn’t a thunder clap spell. The other player has an item called the thundering fists. We had all established that the item has the downside of being incredibly loud. Having it go on right next to the bat’s head would naturally lead to at least temporarily being deafened. They were sharing the same space at the time.
Getting mad might not be the proper term. I politely explain my reasoning. The monk agrees with me and says that the dm has final say but the cleric doesn’t like being wrong so she repeats herself over and over and sometimes starts like she’s about to cry.
i usually try to be reasonable and try to have some give and take. If I mess up and the players point it out, I’ll gladly admit it. However, I’ll make sure to keep this in mind more in the future.
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BookBarbarian
Expert Long Rester
I don't go for arguing with the DM at my table. I make a ruling and move on. If a player has a problem with my ruling, including something that was contrary to the rules, they are free to bring it up after the session, but slowing down table time for arguing is a big no no.
On the times where it has been demonstrated that my ruling was contrary to the rules I'll think about it and either demonstrate why I didn't apply that rule in this context, or more likely apologize and say I'll try to do better next time.
Table time is just too precious to waste on rules lawyering.
On the times where it has been demonstrated that my ruling was contrary to the rules I'll think about it and either demonstrate why I didn't apply that rule in this context, or more likely apologize and say I'll try to do better next time.
Table time is just too precious to waste on rules lawyering.
Alright, thanks for telling me the proper term. The players aren’t level three any more. That was just the starting level. They’re around level 10 now. I’ve hasd to put them against stronger creature to match them and since there’s only two of them they’ve leveled up fairly fast.
I like the idea of pulling them away and putting them in a new dungeon and actually have a way of doing it. The merchant they’ve been harassing is a god in hiding. Something that hasn’t stopped them even after they learned his secret. I think I’ll have to change him being passive next session.
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Eltab
Lord of the Hidden Layer
HOW old is this child ... erm, player? Sounds like a three-year-old.
You can break the 'about to cry' manipulation the same way you shut down a child who threatens "I'm going to hold my breath until I turn blue!" You let him do it. And encourage him to keep holding his breath until he faints. The child will resume breathing as soon as he falls unconscious. A few minutes later, he will wake up. You then tell him "the answer is still No."
Similarly, if she breaks down in tears in frustration (because you aren't doing what she wants), and the game does not stop for her...
Of course, she might storm off for permanent. But I have a hard time saying that will be a bad thing for you.
Regardless of the result of this problem, start recruiting more people into your D&D group. Very likely, you will gain inadvertent allies when your original friends start acting like little kids.
You sound like you need some people around you who acknowledge and respect your authority as DM, to help bring the dis-respecters in line - for a fun time to be had by all. That isn't happening now.
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