Help with math: how do you not fall behind?

[Stalker0]

Bottom line, at high levels encounter and dailies are commonplace, and you cannot ignore the bonuses they provide.

 

[Staffan]

Correct but you're forgetting that the primary ability score for your class should be between 16-20 at level 1. Meaning there is an additional +3 to +5 coming from stats that you aren't accounting for.

The OP wasn't talking about the actual ability bonus, but rather the difference in ability bonus from 1st to 30th level. In that time, you get 8 stat increases, which translates to +4 to relevant rolls.

 

[Jhaelen]

Umm, I'm confused.

Isn't this an old thread? If it isn't there has been a thread with exactly the same topic being discussed at length. I can even remember reading exactly the same arguments from the same people.

I'm having a serious case of deja-vu here...

 

[frankthedm]

I'm having a serious case of deja-vu here...

It is possible. Some folks find it easier to say what they have said before rather than dredging up a link.

By the last levels the party should be a well oiled machine. The leaders are boosting the party's attacks while the controllers grief the enemies's defenses. The warlock and ranger are getting "Prime shot" bonuses while the fighter and rogue make judicious use of ready to ensure every swing gets the flank bonus.

And this "problem" only exists if the DM is using equal leveled foes routinely. At the highest levels the majority of the PC's foes should be lower level.

 

[Mengu]

It's a question of perspective, and what level the game was calibrated for. If the game is calibrated for 1st level, then yes it seems the 30th level characters will be challenged. The way I look at it, low to mid heroic level characters have an easier time hitting things because they can't deal with as much retalitation from monsters if they miss too much. At epic levels, the characters have plenty of resources, and can withstand a good bit of punishment should they miss more frequently.

I see the disparity as help for the low levels instead of punishment for the high levels.

As for defenses, most characters seem to have a weakness somewhere. And higher level monsters almost auto-hit those defenses. Wizards are the biggest exception to this (especially human wizards), but they pay for it by falling behind the rest of the party on hit points. Overall though, having one weak defense can create some un-fun situations if the DM decides to abuse it by constantly targeting those defenses to immobilize, restrain or otherise cripple the characters. A restrained ranger who can't shoot without provoking attacks, and can only do so with a penalty, or a perpetually immobilized fighter who can't get into melee, should not be the norm.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Point-blank archery, if it must be done ... use a readied action.
Sure, it's likely the DM will make you trigger off your foe's attack, which means they get to swing first before your readied action goes off, but they can't take an OA on their turn.
You even get your prime shot bonus, as well as a possible flank.

 

[chitzk0i]

Well, I've told 4e newbies before:
If you can't hit stuff at level 1, it's only going to get worse.

I'm not sure that's true.
Low-level monsters are often concepted as smaller and/or at least somewhat dexterous so they tend to have good reflex. So warlocks and wizards heavy on reflex attacks suffer there.

Furthermore, at higher levels the DM can use some lower-level monsters to fill out encounters, so sometimes you get an advantage. At first level, though, the only way to go is up.

Meanwhile, you have only +3 or 4 to hit their reflex. No enhancement bonus, no half level. Once you gain a few levels and an implement, you'll be much more likely to hit. Plus, the magic items you find are anywhere from 1 to 4 or so levels above you, so might be the first in the party to get a +2 attack item, giving you an edge on attack bonus for a while.

 

[keterys]

Point-blank archery, if it must be done ... use a readied action.
Sure, it's likely the DM will make you trigger off your foe's attack, which means they get to swing first before your readied action goes off, but they can't take an OA on their turn.
You even get your prime shot bonus, as well as a possible flank.

This probably _shouldn't_ avoid an OA, since it's "your turn" briefly, but by RAW this does indeed work. I know that as DM I've avoided using this tactic in the past to avoid bothering people (like the fighter who has pinned down the wizard in the back)