Help with Natural Weapons

Omegaxicor

First Post
I understand that Natural weapons are Claw and Bite attacks, and they don't gain multiple attacks based on having a high BAB.

My question is, is there any way to gain multiple attacks and do the Two/Multi Weapon Fighting feats count natural weapons?
 

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I understand that Natural weapons are Claw and Bite attacks, and they don't gain multiple attacks based on having a high BAB.

My question is, is there any way to gain multiple attacks and do the Two/Multi Weapon Fighting feats count natural weapons?
That's two questions, isn't it?

(1) Is there any way to gain multiple [natural] attacks?

AFAIK, no. Since you attack with each of your natural weapons once in a full attack sequence, regardless of your BAB, the only way to attack more times in the same round would be to somehow gain extra actions. I suppose there could be a feat or something that allows you to make an additional natural weapon attack (essentially, that's what abilities like Rend do), but I don't really know of any.

(2) Do the Two-Weapon Fighting feats count natural weapons?

Not really, because they follow the BAB scheme. But you can TWF and make secondary natural weapon attacks in the same full attack sequence (for example, sword-dagger-bite).
 


An animal companion with only one natural weapon gets a second attack with it at a -5 penalty (basically just like an iterative attack) when the companion would normally gain the Multiattack feat.

Haste, AFAIK, grants any target an additional attack at highest bonus, so you could use the bonus haste attack to use your claw or bite or whatever again.
 

Wow natural weapons pale in comparison to normal weapons, even unarmed combat seems better

Thanks I'll look into the Rapidstrike feat tree

Is there a reason not to have natural weapons (Claws specifically) have iterative attacks? I'm just curious if I make a new feat/ability to change that does it have a massive effect on something else
 

The main reason is because they already benefit from not being dependent on BAB for how many attacks you get, just the # of natural weapons. As in, if you have two claws, a bite, and a tail slap, you get ALL of them, even with BAB +1. A regular dude with a sword would need to be much much higher level to get that many attacks. Also, you CAN always full attack with an unarmed strike or manufactured weapon (swords, etc...) and then use all of your natural weapons as secondary natural weapon attacks (- to hit, half str bonus to damage) on top of it (if you used a hand or hands for those attacks, you'd be unable to claw or slam attack with those hand(s), though).

Note that even if you don't have a lot of natural weapons as a base, there are feats, spells, and magic items to gain more of them, so the potential is still there.

So if you wanted to make natural weapons work more like manufactured ones, I'd say the first step is to remove all of the many, many numerous advantages they have over manufactured weapons. Otherwise they're just getting the best of both worlds, and you're totally breaking game balance.

Also, there are some spells, psionic powers, and class features that give you natural weapons, but have you use your BAB and iterative attacks with them, instead of the normal rules. I can't think of any at the moment, but I could try to find examples if you really, really want me to.
 

An animal companion with only one natural weapon gets a second attack with it at a -5 penalty (basically just like an iterative attack) when the companion would normally gain the Multiattack feat.
Is this a Pathfinder rule? Its not a 3.5 rule. Multiattack does ONE thing, and ONE thing only. It reduces the penalty on secondary natural attacks by 3 (down to -2, from -5). Nowhere in its description does it give any extra attacks. Rapid Strike DOES give you an extra attack, put it only works with a "pair" of weapons like a set of claws or wing buffets or tentacles, and it only gives one extra attack per "pair" so it wouldn't work with a bite. Bites DO often have special rules if they are the sole natural weapon, in that they sometimes deal 1.5x +str damage similar to attacking with a two handed weapon. They do NOT benefit from 2:1 Power Attack like wielding a two handed weapon though.

Also, there are some spells, psionic powers, and class features that give you natural weapons, but have you use your BAB and iterative attacks with them, instead of the normal rules. I can't think of any at the moment, but I could try to find examples if you really, really want me to.
I actually can't think of any. The abilities that give you weapons (Flame Blade, Ice Axe, Thunderlance, etc) all give you iteratives. The ones that give you natural weapons (Claws of the Beast, Bite of the Wolf, Trollshape, Body of War, etc) all explicitly give you natural attacks that follow all of the rules for natural attacks.

You are right in the advantage though. Its much easier to load up on natural attacks then to get manufactured weapon attacks. A Silverbrow Human Totemist3 with Aberrant Blood + Inhuman Reach + Deepspawn who binds Girallon Claws to his Totem and shapes Dragon Tail can make 7 natural attacks in a round (4 claws, 2 tentacles, 1 tail). A Warforged Totemist3 with Second Slam and Jaws of Death feat could have 7 (2 slams, 1 bite, 4 claws). If either of those took a flaw + Improved Unarmed Strike, then they could make 8 attacks (1 UAS primary, 7 natural attacks secondary).

The easiest way to arbitrate natural weapons is first to determine if the wielder is wielding a weapon that can make iteratives. This is a manufactured weapon or UAS. If not, then figure out what it's primary natural weapon is. Monster stat blocks usually indicate this, but PC abilities generally don't indicate it. If it isn't clear, just pick one. This attack gets full +Str bonus on damage. All other attacks are secondary and suffer a -5 to hit (-2 with Multiattack). If there is a weapon that can make iteratives, ALL natural weapons become secondary(-5 to hit and +1/2 Str bonus). Then you make your normal iterative sequence (which may or may not include TWF) and THEN you add on all of your natural weapons, AS LONG AS YOUR WEAPONS AREN'T INTERFERING WITH YOUR NATURAL WEAPONS. For example, if you are holding a sword in your clawed hand, you can't make a claw attack with that hand.

Simple simple!
 
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