Help with spiked chain build

[jubei_555]

Hey Iam getting ready to start a new game 1st level, and have been choosen to play the party's fighter. So I started looking at Exotic weapons and decided on the spiked chain. My stat rolls are 12,10,14,16,12,14 I haven't put them to any abilities yet. i was thinking I would play a fighter who used skill vs raw power. I can use almost any rule book I can get my hands on. So what are your thoughts ?


Thanks in advance

Jubei

 

[Magesmiley]

I'd go:
Human Fighter
S16
D12
C14
I14
W12
Ch10

When using the chain you always want a high strength - there are too many times you need to make opposed STR checks. 12 (or maybe 13) DEX is all a spike chain wielder will ever really need (IMO).

Feats
Exotic WP (spiked chain)
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip

The above is the best L1 build using the chain if you're using the core rules.

You might also inquire if you can take flaws from Unearthed Arcana too. If you can, take two flaws for two extra feats and switch over to a dwarf fighter, using one of the feats to compensate for the lost human feat and the other for power attack or weapon focus (or maybe improved disarm if you want something different).

L2 Power Attack
L3 Cleave
L4 Great Cleave
L6 Weapon Focus & Weapon Spec (spiked chain)

You might swap the L3/4 feats with the L6 ones too.

Make sure the party wizard/sorcerer has enlarge person. You won't regret it.

 

[Christian]

I'll concur with almost all of Magesmiley's suggestions ... My only suggestion would be to swap Dex and Con, and take Combat Reflexes instead of Great Cleave, as the latter is a highly over-rated feat (especially with a mediocre-damage weapon like the spiked chain). This also opens up the Dodge feat tree & the possiblity of picking up Whirlwind Attack somewhere down the line. BUT-definitely don't start down that road early, as the Combat Expertise-Improved Trip and Power Attack-Cleave pairs are considerably more useful. But with a decent Dex & Combat Reflexes, along with your Improved Trip feat (crucial!), you'll control the battlefield like you wouldn't believe. Especially if you can get a friendly caster to slap an Enlarge Person on you.

I know this still doesn't sound like the skill instead of raw power build you had in mind. Truth is, the high-Dex/low-Strength chain wielder isn't as dangerous as he looks on paper. Take advantage of the increased damage bonus from Strength and Power Attack with a two-handed weapon if you want to be really effective ... Anyway, you still get to bust people's stereotypes by being an Intelligent fighter, which is pretty cool.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I've personally always found the high dex chain weilder to be deadly when paired with another fighter. The spiked chain weilder is responsible for two major roles (and several more minor ones): 1. Attacks of Opportunity and 2. Disrming/tripping.

Now, if the chain weilder can disarm/trip, it lets the other fighter type character brutalize the opponent with very little recourse. So even though the chain weilder may not dish out a bunch of damage ... the chain weilder can make the other damaging presences much better!

 

[baeleg]

I think the primary problem with that idea is that you always use Str for tripping. If there is a feat out that that would allow you to use your Dex for trip attacks instead, then high Dex chain wielders would be nasty. But when you frequently run into opponents larger and stronger than you, it's pretty important to get that Str mod up to have a decent chance of tripping them.

 

[Shin Okada]

Combat Reflex is good. But personally, I largely prefer Power Attack - Cleave line over tripping. Trip involves contest of ability modifiers. BAB is not at all related to it. That means, even if you become better fighter by gaining experience, you will not become much better at it. If you use it intensively, even with net +6 bonus from the chain and Improved Trip feat, you will lose your chain fairly often.

And tripping is almost useless against bigger, stronger monsters. It becomes worse if they have more than 3 legs.

 

[moritheil]

Definitely get Combat Reflexes, or you're wasting that increased reach that you spent a feat to get.

 

[Christian]

Combat Reflex is good. But personally, I largely prefer Power Attack - Cleave line over tripping.

It's good to have both & have the options available. Against trippable opponents, the capability is very handy (especially in conjunction with Combat Reflexes-you can make it very hard for these opponents to ever close to melee range). Someone trying to do an effective non-fighter build would have some tough feat decisions to make; I've yet to see a really effective spiked chain-wielding monk, as neat a concept as that is. But a straight fighter has feats to burn, and can trip the medium humanoids, cleave the mooks, and power attack the big beasties.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I think the primary problem with that idea is that you always use Str for tripping. If there is a feat out that that would allow you to use your Dex for trip attacks instead, then high Dex chain wielders would be nasty. But when you frequently run into opponents larger and stronger than you, it's pretty important to get that Str mod up to have a decent chance of tripping them.

That is correct, which is why I said disarm/trip. The disarm option gets by two problems. 1: You can Weapon Finesse a spiked chain so you can apply DEX instead of STR, and 2: It is an opposed attack roll, so BAB modifiers do come into play.

As long as you choose when to disarm and when to trip, this combination is good. And most big bad damage dealers don't honestly care whether their opponent is prone or unarmed. Eitehr way, they can approach and dish out damage without fear of tremendous retribution.

But I like how Christian put it. A fighter has feats to burn, so its possible to have many options available. The trick in making a good fighter is to know when to use the things you can do.

 

[baeleg]

That is true. Spiked chain wielders have to make use of all the capabilities of their weapon to really shine. Plus, I suppose you'll do fine as long as your Str isn't too low. Getting the tripping magical quality from Arms & Equipment put on the chain is pretty much a must, as well. I've got a 1st level char I've just started playing that's going for this sort of build, and I think I'll be able to have a +21 trip mod at 8th level, which is enough to have a good chance of pulling over appropriate foes.

I guess my real issue with disarm/trip is that they often work on the same types of opponents. The medium sized humanoids. I'd prefer to try and make my tricks apply to different groups, at least as much as possible.