Hercules in Deities and Demigods

[Akunin]

If you were to assume it was 1 Divine Rank = +3 Levels!?

eg. Hercules = 40 levels + Divine Rank 5 (treated as 6) could equate to 58 levels.

etc.

Hmmm - judging from what we've seen of his stats so far, you may very well be onto something. We may or may not see a rule to that effect describing the "equivalency" of Divine Rank to Epic Levels, but as a rough estimate, it seems to work. I think I'd be a little more conservative and say +4. Epic characters can get really scary, but several abilities they can gain are negated by Herc's immunities.

 

[Glyfair]

Re: Re: Re: Once more unto the breach...

Hi Glyfair mate!



Seemingly 'Divine' Abilities (those using the Divine prefix that is) do scale.

Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to noticeably reduce certain Avatar stats.

It could be if each "Divine Rank" gives the stats in and of themselves. Then the "Divine X" feat just gives a bonus above and beyond those.

Of course, deciding whether is does that or not requires working on a model based on the stats we know and working backwards and seeing which ones work better.

Personally, I'll wait until the book comes out. I'd rather not do that much work. Still, I'd gladly read anyones attempt at this

Glyfair of Glamis

 

[Moulin Rogue]

Personally I think Divine Intervention on the mortal plane is akin to deploying nukes. Everybodies got them but they are rarely used as the retaliation would be devastating to all sides.

But gods of madness/pure chaos might like to start something like that?

Maybe it could be tied in to the old "why don't demons and devils just invade the Prime worlds and take them over" question. Personally I am not a fan of the Blood War explanation they cooked up in 2e, though I haven't really tried to come up with anything better myself. Looking forward to your work, Krusty.

 

[LightPhoenix]

quote:
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Originally posted by DarwinofMind
I think you missunderstood me here, I was saying in 2e, I droped Avatars completely and gave stats to the gods.
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We did the same ourselves.

[/B]

Funny, in a game I played many years ago, the exact opposite was done - gods didn't have stats (they're amorphous beings) but they did have avatars which did have stats. Most people who thought they interacted with a god really interacted with an avatar.

LightPhoenix

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Akunin mate!

Hmmm - judging from what we've seen of his stats so far, you may very well be onto something.

Thanks!

We may or may not see a rule to that effect describing the "equivalency" of Divine Rank to Epic Levels, but as a rough estimate, it seems to work.

I think so.

I think I'd be a little more conservative and say +4. Epic characters can get really scary, but several abilities they can gain are negated by Herc's immunities.

I concur, +4 may be more viable. Certainly at least +2 it would seem.

One thing you would have to weigh up is that Divine Rank doesn't provide the trimmings that come with 'levelling up' (hp, BAB, saves, skills, feats etc.) beyond an initial boost and what can be chosen via Salient Divine Abilities.

*After initial boost to max hp, not necessarily failing saves on a '1' etc. BAB can be increased by choosing Divine Weapon Focus etc.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Once more unto the breach...

Hi Glyfair mate!

It could be if each "Divine Rank" gives the stats in and of themselves. Then the "Divine X" feat just gives a bonus above and beyond those.

But think about it. When they detail the Salient Divine Abilities they just put:

"Divine Weapon Focus"

Not, Divine Weapon Focus taken at Divine Rank +3, or Divine Weapon Specialisation taken at Divine Rank +4.

So obviously all 'Divine' (prefixed) abilities are based on the current Divine Rank.

Of course, deciding whether is does that or not requires working on a model based on the stats we know and working backwards and seeing which ones work better

Personally, I'll wait until the book comes out. I'd rather not do that much work. Still, I'd gladly read anyones attempt at this

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi there Moulin Rogue!

(great name by the way - as I am sure others have told you!)

But gods of madness/pure chaos might like to start something like that?

Exactly, which is likely the reason why they were usually imprisoned/bound/destroyed by other gods aeons ago.

Think of most of the Great Old Ones; think of Tharizdun; think of the Greek Titans etc.

Maybe it could be tied in to the old "why don't demons and devils just invade the Prime worlds and take them over" question. Personally I am not a fan of the Blood War explanation they cooked up in 2e, though I haven't really tried to come up with anything better myself.

I wasn't a fan of the Blood War (in any sense), I think Gary Gygax painted a much better picture in his Gord the Rogue novels.

Looking forward to your work, Krusty.

Thanks! I appreciate the interest!

I may have an announcement in a day or two about a slight change to the plans.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Light Phoenix!

Funny, in a game I played many years ago, the exact opposite was done - gods didn't have stats (they're amorphous beings) but they did have avatars which did have stats. Most people who thought they interacted with a god really interacted with an avatar.

That sort of cheapens Divinity. Its like a get out of jail free card.

Our DM always said: "any characters (including deities) that are unaffected by getting shot in the head with a tank shell are not worth playing!"

...he then introduced my deity character to the cyber punk setting for a few adventures and promptly shot the crap out of him.

The powered armour troops were notably tough, even though they were simply 4th-level and I was over 100th. When you have 5 such troops coming at you with auto-grenade launchers you learn humility and respect...the hard way!

 

[S'mon]

Funny, in a game I played many years ago, the exact opposite was done - gods didn't have stats (they're amorphous beings) but they did have avatars which did have stats. Most people who thought they interacted with a god really interacted with an avatar.

LightPhoenix

For some campaign settings the idea that gods are amorphous beings/concepts who can _only_ manifest as avatars is a very nice one, it fits well into eg a Moorcockian universe where the gods battle for control of many planes, and the strength of the avatar depends on their strength on that plane. It makes playing PC deities almost impossible though, ie it's not very compatible with U_K's WPS approach or with 'straight' Greek or Norse mythology (where the myths are literally true in-game).

Certainly it's better than the 2e approach of just declaring gods to omnipotent - if a god cannot manifest except through weak avatars then they may be _less_ powerful than a more 'human' deity.

 

[S'mon]

Hi Light Phoenix!

That sort of cheapens Divinity. Its like a get out of jail free card.

Our DM always said: "any characters (including deities) that are unaffected by getting shot in the head with a tank shell are not worth playing!"

...he then introduced my deity character to the cyber punk setting for a few adventures and promptly shot the crap out of him.

The powered armour troops were notably tough, even though they were simply 4th-level and I was over 100th. When you have 5 such troops coming at you with auto-grenade launchers you learn humility and respect...the hard way!

LOL - S'mon stands up and says:

"AND I AM THAT GM!"



PC deities need to be kept on a human level - you can't really "play" a concept (at least, not in D&D - maybe in an abstract boardgame or similar you could).

If I were to use eg the Christian 'Holy Spirit' in game I would probably treat it as an avatar in this sense. It's an interesting idea anyway. Gods that are basically concepts rather than persons are unkillable except by destroying their worship base. While U_K may not like this idea, Thrin has already encountered and fought a similar entity - the Arasaka Corporation...