Hercules in Deities and Demigods

[Berandor]

PC deities need to be kept on a human level - you can't really "play" a concept (at least, not in D&D - maybe in an abstract boardgame or similar you could).

Which really leaves only the question: Why PC deities?

Anyway, keep up this thread! Now that I worked through the first nine pages in hindsight, I'd like to follow your exchanges for a few more days...

B

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Berandor!

Which really leaves only the question: Why PC deities?

The reply being 'why not!?'

Variety is the spice of life after all!

Anyway, keep up this thread! Now that I worked through the first nine pages in hindsight, I'd like to follow your exchanges for a few more days...

 

[Berandor]

Yeah, UK, I agree.

I didn't meant that as argument, or anything... it's not my kind of stuff, but if only my kind of stuff was available the world would be...

...frickin' cool!

No, wait! I mean boring!

Anyway, I think it's time for a heartily YMMV.

(I always wanted to post that - even though I have NO idea what YMMV means)

Berandor

 

[Darkness]

... YMMV.

(I always wanted to post that - even though I have NO idea what YMMV means)

Berandor

YMMV= your mileage (sp?) may vary.

 

[Glyfair]

Re: Re: Once more unto the breach...

But think about it. When they detail the Salient Divine Abilities they just put:

"Divine Weapon Focus"

Not, Divine Weapon Focus taken at Divine Rank +3, or Divine Weapon Specialisation taken at Divine Rank +4.

So obviously all 'Divine' (prefixed) abilities are based on the current Divine Rank.

I think either you missed my point, or I wasn't very good at expressing it.

When you create a normal character you don't list Weapon Focus at 4th level, or Weapon Focus at 10th level. You just have Weapon Focus. It gives you a +1 to all attack rolls whether you are 1st level or 20th level.

Why wouldn't Divine abilities be similiar, i.e. Divine Weapon Focus gives you a +X to your attack rolls?

I'm not saying you are wrong. However, I think my method is more in line with the way the core system was designed to work, i.e. feats are all or nothing abilities. It's obvious that these abilities are based on the feat system with so many of them just being "Divine" versions of normal feats.

Again, detailed analysis of the stats may show that one method is more obviously the case. However, if they do go with your method, I think they are breaking one of the core assumptions of the system.

Glyfair of Glamis

 

[Glyfair]

A few thoughts on Avatar's power levels. UK seems to be making the assumption that they have half the divine rank of the deity. If this is true that means Hera has a Divine Rank of 16 or 17.

However, given all the information we can extrapolate from are Hera's avatar stats and Hermes avatar & base stats, it's possible that an avatar has a Divine Rank of 8 less than the base deity (which would make Hera's Divine Rank 16).

A few notes on what we can probably infer of what Divine Rank is used for:

Skill bonuses (both avatars lose 8 from all skills and are 8 levels less than their Divine Rank or assumed Divine Rank).
Spell Resistance.
Saves.
Attack Bonus.
Caster level for spell-like abilities.
Various DC's and the range of Divine Aura.

Glyfair of Glamis

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Berandor!

Yeah, UK, I agree.

I didn't meant that as argument, or anything...

Either way its okay mate!

it's not my kind of stuff, but if only my kind of stuff was available the world would be...

...frickin' cool!

No, wait! I mean boring!

Anyway, I think it's time for a heartily YMMV.

(I always wanted to post that - even though I have NO idea what YMMV means)

 

[demajen]

Wow, i can't believe I've actually just spent half an hour reading this lot. Ouch my eyes hurt. Good specualtions guys. I've always loved reading about the gods in D&D (i got Legends and Lore and all 3 deities books for the Realms for 2nd. Ed) so I'm jolly well looking forward to Deities and Demigods. Also, the Epic-Level Handbook will finally allow me to convert some of my characters from 2nd. Ed (we had to put the campaign off, since there was no way to officially convert characters of over 20th level and still make them special).
Keep up the good work guys.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Once more unto the breach...

Hi Glyfair mate!

I think either you missed my point, or I wasn't very good at expressing it.

Both maybe even!

I think I certainly failed to explain my counter argument properly.

When you create a normal character you don't list Weapon Focus at 4th level, or Weapon Focus at 10th level. You just have Weapon Focus. It gives you a +1 to all attack rolls whether you are 1st level or 20th level.

Why wouldn't Divine abilities be similiar, i.e. Divine Weapon Focus gives you a +X to your attack rolls?

Its certainly plausible.

I'm not saying you are wrong.

Thats okay mate, I might well be!?

However, I think my method is more in line with the way the core system was designed to work, i.e. feats are all or nothing abilities.

Either way it will be interesting to see how things pan out!

It's obvious that these abilities are based on the feat system with so many of them just being "Divine" versions of normal feats.

There are certainly similarities.

Though would you say Supreme Initiative is equal to Improved Initiative!?

Again, detailed analysis of the stats may show that one method is more obviously the case.

Absolutely!

We may even find out when the next Dragon is released.

The obvious way to check would be if a deity & avatar both had Divine Weapon Focus; though we don't yet have such an example.

However, if they do go with your method, I think they are breaking one of the core assumptions of the system.

Remember that Feats and Salient Divine Abilities are not necessarily the same thing though!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again Glyfair mate!

A few thoughts on Avatar's power levels. UK seems to be making the assumption that they have half the divine rank of the deity. If this is true that means Hera has a Divine Rank of 16 or 17.

However, given all the information we can extrapolate from are Hera's avatar stats and Hermes avatar & base stats, it's possible that an avatar has a Divine Rank of 8 less than the base deity (which would make Hera's Divine Rank 16).

I totally agree!

In fact that actually makes more sense (and I would prefer); since choosing the 'Avatar' ability at Divine Rank 2 would seem somewhat weird.

I guess we must wait and see.

A few notes on what we can probably infer of what Divine Rank is used for:

Skill bonuses (both avatars lose 8 from all skills and are 8 levels less than their Divine Rank or assumed Divine Rank).
Spell Resistance.
Saves.
Attack Bonus.
Caster level for spell-like abilities.
Various DC's and the range of Divine Aura.

Also

- Damage Reduction 35 (+ Divine Rank)/+4
- Armour Class bonus.
- # of Salient Divine Abilities (Divine Rank +1)
- # uses for

But what makes you think Saves or Attack Bonus are affected mate?

Going over things the Attack Bonus certainly seems like it fits though! (and nicely cancels the AC bonus)

Incidently is Hercules club '+5'?