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Here Come The PRESTIGE CLASSES! Plus Rune Magic!

Mike Mearls' latest Unearthed Arcana column presents the first ever 5E prestige class: the Rune Scribe! "Prestige classes build on the game’s broad range of basic options to represent specialized options and unique training. The first of those specialized options for fifth edition D&D is the rune scribe—a character who masters ancient sigils that embody the fundamental magic of creation."

Mike Mearls' latest Unearthed Arcana column presents the first ever 5E prestige class: the Rune Scribe! "Prestige classes build on the game’s broad range of basic options to represent specialized options and unique training. The first of those specialized options for fifth edition D&D is the rune scribe—a character who masters ancient sigils that embody the fundamental magic of creation."

It's a 5-level class, and also contains the basic information on how prestige classes work and how to join them - including ability, skill, level, and task-based prerequisites. Find it here.
 

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Andor

First Post
In every field you list, there are exceptional individuals who are self taught who have made major contributions to their field, completely disproving your entire point.

I think I've made it clear that YMMV so I'm not interested in having an argument, but out of curiosity could you name some of these people who made major advancements in, and were acknowledged as masters of, fields in which they had no training, knowledge, or access to existing materials, within a few days of entering the field mind you, since the whole of my point was that expertise (to the point of representing class level abilities like spell casting or shape shifting) is not acquired in days?

The fields I named btw are Knighthood, Wizardry, and the Martial Arts. The rest was an overview of an educational/professional system that taught everything from Blacksmithy to Falconry, or in the modern system Anthropologists to Nuclear Physicists. Although if you'ld like to name a Blacksmith or Physicist who was acknowledged as a skilled practitioner of the art within days of picking up a hammer, or piece of chalk for the first time I'm curious to hear those too.

I think you'll find that most self-taught masters, of which there are plenty, spent rather a long time working on their craft. Mozart was considered a prodigy at the age of 5, but had already spent two solid years in training and practice to add to his remarkable native talent.
 

Acr0ssTh3P0nd

First Post
Their purpose is the same as all those other things you mention. To get a character where the player wants it to go via several different options available.

5E has been set up and built such that there are many ways to skin a cat. Because no one agrees on the one right way to make something. Thus, rather than shutting some people out, they instead give multiple paths to choose from...

...Is "Rune Magic" divine magic? Many would say no. The fluff just seems wrong. Thus, making it a Cleric sub-class might not feel right. Would a "rune mage" write all their runes down in a spellbook? And get access to all the different types of magic open to wizards? Eh, maybe? But maybe not? Thus, making it a Wizard sub-class also might not feel right. Would "rune magic" be a single thing with several small abilities you'd get, the same way you do the Magic Initiate feat? Again, maybe. But does it feel like it gives rune magic short shrift if all you get from it is ostensibly the power equivalent of one 1st level spell and a pair of cantrips? To some, maybe yes. And thus, making "rune magic" just a feat might feel like you're short-changing the concept.

So if it doesn't really fit under the umbrella of a certain class's fluff or mechanics to be a sub-class of that class... and it warrants having more mechanical heft than what you'd get a from a single feat... BUT... the concept *might* be more limited that making a full 20-level class out of it seems potentially like overkill... what is left? To me, the answer is either being making "feat trees" (where you can take several feats in a row that gain more and more power), or you create the idea of "microclasses"... concepts whose fluff and story (and the game mechanics which reflect that fluff and story) are individual enough that they deserve their own "class", but perhaps don't have enough heft to them to make 20 levels of it. But only 10 levels? Only 5 levels? That might be an idea worth thinking about. Which is exactly why I think they broached the subject with us in this UA. To see how we feel about this middle ground between the feat, the sub-class and the full 20-level class.

Let's take another example: the Artificer. Most people I read seemed to agree that having it as a sub-class of the wizard did not feel like it was the best way to do it. Some folks would be okay in the long run with it should WotC have decided that was the way they were doing it... but other folks were giving all manner of reason why it shouldn't. A lot of the wizard's fluff and mechanics didn't really reflect their idea of the artificer. Thus some were making the artificer a Warlock sub-class, a Bard sub-class, or a Cleric sub-class-- but in almost all cases they were using them purely for the mechanical expression of the artificer concept, and were stripping the actual fluff off of the main class. No one really thought an artificer was actually a Warlock-- making a pact with a greater crafting entity. LOL. Some other folks felt it deserved to be a full 20-level class itself, because that way they fluff of the class and the mechanics of the class could be created out of whole cloth so that it would all work together seamlessly. And granted, there's some truth to be gleaned by that.

But is an artificer-- a magic user that puts spells into objects for people to use-- closer to a wizard than we might give it credit for? As an actual sub-class of the wizard it might not work out (because of all the baggage and features you get as a wizard that don't apply to the artificer)... but conceptually is an artificer using the same scientific concepts of magic that the wizard does-- the same method of arcane textual usage-- but is just putting that magic in a different form such that the artificer and the wizard are two sides of the same coin? To the point that you could (if you wanted) make a artificer Prestige Class-- an artificer of say only 5 or 10 levels-- that would make sense to multiclass with the wizard? You start as a standard wizard, going through your first several levels of the Apprentice tier learning the basics of magic-- and then at some point turn away from standard wizardry to begin your work as an artificer or alchemist? Where you begin inserting your magic into objects, rather than casting spells. And you follow that path for maybe 5 or 10 levels with fluff and mechanics that are running parallel to the wizard, but are not OF the wizard? Might not that be a possible middle ground?

Now let's be fair here... I'm just spitballing. Perhaps the artificer/alchemist "magical object maker" concept deserves and can support a full 20 levels. Or perhaps the "rune magic" concept can support 20 levels. Or the "tactical warrior" warlord concept can support 20 levels. And thus the idea of the middle ground "prestige class" isn't necessary.

But maybe it could be? Maybe a warlord prestige class-- 5 or 10 levels of the warlord that is build to be a possible fighter or rogue multiclass might work? Or maybe not. I dunno. But it's certainly a possible option, and a different way to build a character concept beyond what you could build using feats and sub-classes.

It's interesting to think about, no?

I really appreciate you taking the time to type this all out, so I didn't have to! Wonderful explanation here for the role Prestige Classes could fill in 5e (and for the record, I too think that "Warlord" would be an excellent use of prestige class mechanics).
 

No one really thought an artificer was actually a Warlock-- making a pact with a greater crafting entity. LOL.

Actually, that sounds awesome. Not a crafting entity, but maybe a rogue element on Mechanus, who wants to bring greater order to the Material Plane? Get some crafting abilities, mending and the like as domain spells and maybe a modron familiar with Pact of the Chain.
 

Actually, that sounds awesome. Not a crafting entity, but maybe a rogue element on Mechanus, who wants to bring greater order to the Material Plane? Get some crafting abilities, mending and the like as domain spells and maybe a modron familiar with Pact of the Chain.

I totally want to make that subclass now... the Mechanus pact... more then meets the eye...
 

HobbitFan

Explorer
There are alot of weird things about the decision to start experimenting with prestige classes.
1. How does this sort of addition to the game relate to notion of avoiding bloat?
2. How will future prestiage classes work if alot of what they were in 3E have already been folded into how classes advance in 5E. It seems like the design space is getting kinda small and niche here. Plenty of concepts mind you, just not so much room in terms of game mechanic design space. Rune type casters seem like they could be interesting. I'm just not sure that their example is that interesting mechanically.
3. Why are they messing with prestiage classes when they haven't (yet) even released a campaign setting?
 


Sir Brennen

Legend
There are alot of weird things about the decision to start experimenting with prestige classes.
1. How does this sort of addition to the game relate to notion of avoiding bloat?
2. How will future prestige classes work if alot of what they were in 3E have already been folded into how classes advance in 5E. It seems like the design space is getting kinda small and niche here. Plenty of concepts mind you, just not so much room in terms of game mechanic design space. Rune type casters seem like they could be interesting. I'm just not sure that their example is that interesting mechanically.
3. Why are they messing with prestige classes when they haven't (yet) even released a campaign setting?

1) As has been pointed out, a single prestige class that can be taken by multiple classes is less rules heavy than creating multiple, similarly themed subclasses. So, that's one way. Other ways depend on what you mean by bloat. Even if PrC's become standard parts of certain supplemental books going forward, the greatly reduced release schedule will avoid the avalanche that happened in 3e, where multiple books a year had half a dozen new PrCs each (not even counting third party supplements.) I mean, you could ask the same thing about sub-classes and feats - how does having them in the game avoid rules bloat? And I think the answer is the same: by controlling the amount of material released. (How whatever OGL or other license plays into this, we'll see, but I think we won't have the same tsunami of 3rd Party material we did in the early d20 days).

2. I think this is another answer to your first question. Hopefully prestige classes will reflect the original stated 3E intent of representing special training or knowledge by belonging to a special organization. The example we've seen also suggests another criteria new to this edition: the PrC should be at least somewhat class agnostic. Otherwise, it should probably be a subclass.

3. Not sure what one has to do with the other. This is a playtest article garnering feedback. An actual, working version of PrCs may be a ways off. In fact, if they do release a campaign setting, it would make sense to have the mechanics of PrCs already worked out, so they could present a couple along with the campaign material. "Here's a PrC for organization X in this campaign world." One could say the Sword Coast Adventure's Guide is a localized setting book for the Forgotten Realms. The next supplement focusing on another area of the Realms might include a PrC for someone joining the Harpers, the Purple Knights or what have you (I'm not an FR scholar by any means.) So it would make sense to start playing with PrCs now.
 
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Parmandur

Book-Friend
For your Information: I am German. D&D is written in English. So I just assume, English is the common tongue. And Old German is an ancient variant of that common tongue. Nothing political about that, just practical sense. If Runes are an ancient form of magic, it makes sense that ancient words are used. (For me as a German, it does not make sense at all... as we use exactly those words still today...)


Yeah, it is a standard trope in English language fantasy, because Tolkien did it in the Lord of the Rings. Of course, he was a world class linguist specialized in the Germanic languages, so his stuff was better than WOTC. :)
 


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