Here Come The PRESTIGE CLASSES! Plus Rune Magic!

Mike Mearls' latest Unearthed Arcana column presents the first ever 5E prestige class: the Rune Scribe! "Prestige classes build on the game’s broad range of basic options to represent specialized options and unique training. The first of those specialized options for fifth edition D&D is the rune scribe—a character who masters ancient sigils that embody the fundamental magic of creation."

It's a 5-level class, and also contains the basic information on how prestige classes work and how to join them - including ability, skill, level, and task-based prerequisites. Find it here.

 

[Xavian Starsider]

Like the concept. Don't like that Rune magic chops off Higher Level spells in return for it's features. This was an issue in 3rd edition. Something that is supposed to enhance magic shouldn't reduce the ability to cast high level spells .

You may want to read it more carefully, then. It specifically states that if you're adding it onto another spellcasting class, that you continue the spell progression. They give the example that a wizard 6/rune scribe 4 would have the spell slots of a 10th level wizard but the spellbook of a 6th level wizard. Now think about it. The highest spell you can cast is limited only by having an available spell slot and knowing the spell. That Wiz 6/Rune 4 has 5th level spell slots, and can still cast 5th level spells if he knows any. He can still scribe 5th level spells into his spellbook. He's just not getting the two free spells per level up that a wizard does. Similarly, a cleric can still pray for 5th level spells if she has 5th level slots. In 5th edition, it doesn't matter where your spellcasting slots came from. Even a Wiz 10/Cleric 1 can cast 5th level divine spells since there's nowhere in the class description limiting the level of spell you can know.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It does. If you were a level 15 wizard and level 5 Rune Caster you lose access to the highest spell levels. You can still cast lower level spells at 9th level spell power but that's not exactly the same. A prestige class that enhances a class should replace the features of the original class but not the main ability.

if the game is never going over 14th level, and the 7th level ranger and 7th level fighter(eldritch knight) both take 5 levels of it they get a big benfit

 

[Xavian Starsider]

It does. If you were a level 15 wizard and level 5 Rune Caster you lose access to the highest spell levels. You can still cast lower level spells at 9th level spell power but that's not exactly the same. A prestige class that enhances a class should replace the features of the original class but not the main ability.

Except it doesn't. As I just explained in my previous post, your ability to learn a spell is limited only by the spell slots you have available to you. Not your class level.

Copying a Spell into the Book. When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.

Which means that you can cast a 5th level spell if you have 5th level slots and have it in your spellbook (or pray for it, etc.) But a wizard doesn't get 'free' spells when he gains rune scribe levels.

 

[TwoSix]

You may want to read it more carefully, then. It specifically states that if you're adding it onto another spellcasting class, that you continue the spell progression. They give the example that a wizard 6/rune scribe 4 would have the spell slots of a 10th level wizard but the spellbook of a 6th level wizard. Now think about it. The highest spell you can cast is limited only by having an available spell slot and knowing the spell. That Wiz 6/Rune 4 has 5th level spell slots, and can still cast 5th level spells if he knows any. He can still scribe 5th level spells into his spellbook. He's just not getting the two free spells per level up that a wizard does. Similarly, a cleric can still pray for 5th level spells if she has 5th level slots. In 5th edition, it doesn't matter where your spellcasting slots came from. Even a Wiz 10/Cleric 1 can cast 5th level divine spells since there's nowhere in the class description limiting the level of spell you can know.

While that's a very common interpretation of the multiclassing sections of the PHB (and is quite supportable from a pure RAW standpoint), WotC has confirmed that is not the intent of the rules. Most games simply don't play that way. See: http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/19/multiclass-caster-spellbook/

 

[Falling Icicle]

I was really hoping that prestige classes would take the form of feats in this edition.

 

[Li Shenron]

There is now a chance for the best prestige class every...

The Horizon Walker

I was hoping for that to be a Ranger subclass.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Obviously, the key difference between PrC's and sub-classes is that PrCs aren't going to be limited to a particular class (though they may tend to favor some over others). I think there's room in 5E's design space for something like that. More than a feat, less than a full archetype/new class, more flexible in it's implementation than a subclass.

One thing these PrCs will have over 3.x's, is the way 5E's core proficiency bonus works across character level, not class. Too many PrCs build I saw created to take advantage of gaining an abiltiy AND an untimely bump to attack bonus or saving throws. Will there be some min-maxing? Sure, but definitely not to the same degree. And no matter what, you *will* be giving up some higher level ablities for certain, in exchange for a wider range of lower level abilities.

(As an aside: multi-classing into fighter is going to cost a wizard his higher level spells without accessing high level fighter abilities, so why should PrCs be any different?)

Though I've never really been a fan of PrCs, I'm actually on-board with this version.

It does require some thought on the part of a designers, though. Would this PrC concept be more appropriate as a feat? A sub-class of a specific class? Or do I have enough of a concept here to create a new archetype altogether?

 

[Zaran]

if the game is never going over 14th level, and the 7th level ranger and 7th level fighter(eldritch knight) both take 5 levels of it they get a big benfit

Let's say a wizard level 3 gets 5 levels. That wizard can't cast fireball or dispel magic. They can cast Magic Missile at 5th level spell power. Casting a level 1 spell at 5th level power is no where near as useful as casting a 5th level spell (most of the time). I really don't care if they don't get free spells per level. I just think that a spell casting prestige class should not penalize the PC like multiclassing does.

 

[77IM]

Looks pretty good as a PrC implementation. My main beef is the "surprise requirements." Picture this at your gaming table: "Oh, I found a master rune! I can be a RuneCaster now! ...oh, I didn't put a whopping 13 into Dex at character creation, dang." This disappointment leads to its countermeasure: Planning out your PrC progression right from 1st level.

So I'd prefer they lighten the mechanical requirements to the bare minimum, like level plus a single ability score. Other than that, it looks fine.

 

[jrowland]

Some comments of my own:

As long as PrC's stay 5 levels and don't move into 10 levels, I think its fine. At 10 levels, PrCs should just be sub-class or class.

Feats you get roughly every 4 levels, so to re-create this PrC (Rune Scribe) using feats would take roughly ALL of your feat slots spread over most of your career...ouch. With a PrC you can dive in.

Given those two points, 5 level PrC does occupy space between feats (infrequent but big gains) and class/sub-class (frequent but small gains).

As for Rune Scribe itself:

Seems fine, except for the wonky magic item thing. So you need to find one magic rune and then a mentor to become a scribe, but you don't need a magic item to attune to other runes once you are a scribe...huh? That seems ham-fisted and kludgy to me.

I don't mind the spellcasting issue. If you take 3 levels of Rune Scribe or less, you can sill get level 9 spells in main class, at the cost of "more runes." So really the whole "can't get 9th level spells" thing is only valid for level 4 and 5 rune scribes with full progression spellcasting class.

I think this whole elemental rune thing is nice for a PotA campaign. Maybe my group entering wave echo cave will find one of these runes and maybe Gundren's brother (Darden?) can be a Rune Scribe...Be a nice little bump for PotA.

Final Note: Interesting how they did the 4th level ability "Living Rune". I'd prefer a standard Ability Score Increase that could be swapped for an (optional) feat as per PHB.