Here Come The PRESTIGE CLASSES! Plus Rune Magic!

Mike Mearls' latest Unearthed Arcana column presents the first ever 5E prestige class: the Rune Scribe! "Prestige classes build on the game’s broad range of basic options to represent specialized options and unique training. The first of those specialized options for fifth edition D&D is the rune scribe—a character who masters ancient sigils that embody the fundamental magic of creation."

It's a 5-level class, and also contains the basic information on how prestige classes work and how to join them - including ability, skill, level, and task-based prerequisites. Find it here.

 

[SuperZero]

Seriously? You seriously believe that 'practicing your skills and fighting' means anyone can develop skill at combat and learn new combat techniques. Well, there goes a millennium of people faking that there's a need for schools and trainers to practice in.

I honestly thought you were being sarcastic there at first. Of... course practicing skills can lead to improving those skills? That's actually modeled in the game: Experience points.

How do you think all of those trainers and teachers learned their abilities?
Sure things can be taught. You do probably want to be taught a thing or two about fighting before the first time you face off with giant monsters. Y'know, ideally. That things can be taught doesn't imply they can't also be developed. If it were only possible to learn things by being taught them, it wouldn't be possible to learn things because nobody would know them to teach them. Somebody had to use this technique without being taught, or it wouldn't exist; why can't the protagonists of the story pull that off?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Minigiant]

The saving grace of Prestige Classes looks like a nerf to your PC like mulyiclassing for more that 3 levels. So only the people who want story reasons to do it and are engaged in the lore will take them.

No powergamer will make a bard/harper scout. They'll miss their secrets.

 

[Li Shenron]

Lovely, now comes the 3rd party flood of substandard prcs for every damned thing. I was much happier with archetypes. I feel they filled that niche much nicer than prcs.

If by archetypes you mean subclasses, then they serve a different purpose because they are fundamentally locked to a single class.

IMHO subclasses should be used to represent something non-elite, just one possible path of the many for that class; by contrast, prestige classes should be used to represent elite paths which are restricted by membership. For example, I am not sure that Purple Dragon Knights were a good idea as a subclass (but then if only Fighter are supposed to be PDK, then it's good!).

As for the danger of flood, it's there also for subclasses, if it hasn't started yet. WotC is not going to bloat the 5e system with the current release plan, which is what so far, one sourcebooks per year, plus small adventures additions? If it bloats with this plan, it bloats because of 3rd party products, so why is everybody asking for an OGL as soon as possible?

These, just like multi-classing, are not allowed at any games I run. Why? Because that's where the brokenness combos live, and character concepts get thrown out the window.

I agree that the latter should not be forgotten. For me even worse than breaking the rules it was to see ridiculous non-concepts like Fighter 4/Wizard 3/Rogue 2/Master of Shadow 1/Defender of the The Light 1/Fire Adept 1/Icemonger 1/Superhero 1/Extraordinary Commoner 1/Ultra Specialist 1/Mega Generalist 1...

Multiclass characters don't "instantly know something" any more than single-class characters who gain a new ability or characters who take a Feat. Don't treat leveling up as magic instant knowledge, but the moment at which your practice starts making a practical difference (quantified as a single moment for ease of use by us players).

Besides which, Fighter, Ranger, and Rogue are all skills any adventurer could develop; they are all practicing their skills and fighting. Sorcerer is natural ability awakening. Cleric, Druid, and Paladin can all represent a growing connection with nature or a higher force. The default flavor for Warlock seems to suggest that gaining the initial abilities is rather sudden.

I agree on both these points.

Although I have to say that I like the Rokugan fantasy setting because of its difference with the normal fantasy setting, that in Rokugan essentially all knowledge flows through masters to students, with a strong emphasis on belonging to a school. You can't even mix base classes freely because if you're meant to be a Samurai, you join a Samurai school (when you're still a child) and you stay there forever. There is no such thing as "I want to learn a bit of magic, a few roguish skills, this special trick, that awesome technique" and cherry-pick classes, feats and other stuff. You have to stick with one path (Samurai, Shugenja, Monk or Courtier) and with what your Clan offers in that path, although elite options exists, but you have to earn access to them (and you are still normally restricted to your clan's), and once you enter an elite path, only a fool would leave it for another. Despite the abundance of published PrCls also in Rokugan, it was never a problem... unless you totally changed the setting's basic premise!

 

[Galendril]

That bears no resemblance to anything I said.
Multiclass characters don't "instantly know something" any more than single-class characters who gain a new ability or characters who take a Feat. Don't treat leveling up as magic instant knowledge, but the moment at which your practice starts making a practical difference (quantified as a single moment for ease of use by us players).

Besides which, Fighter, Ranger, and Rogue are all skills any adventurer could develop; they are all practicing their skills and fighting. Sorcerer is natural ability awakening. Cleric, Druid, and Paladin can all represent a growing connection with nature or a higher force. The default flavor for Warlock seems to suggest that gaining the initial abilities is rather sudden.
About the only one that seems like it might require special training (or practice on one's own, even) is Wizard, and Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters already kind of do that.
Regarding this Prestige Class specifically, focusing on and studying the rune you found, realizing you haven't fully unlocked its power and trying to do so... it makes a lot more sense to me as a natural progression than somebody teaching it. How did those people figure it out, after all? Somebody had to--why can't the heroes of the story?
I mean, maybe the ability to use new runes without possessing other master runes... ? But even that could just be coming across the rune itself carved into something or printed in a book or such.

I did also say that suddenly picking up a multiclass out of the blue wasn't likely to be a problem because it wasn't likely to happen anyway. You cut that part out of your response, for some reason.



You did say that. I'm still not sure why, since what I said really had nothing to do with that. Which is what I pointed out in the post you quoted here. Seems more like an attempt to insult me.
(Also, the mechanics for learning rune magic are not ever going to be realistic.)

First, how do you explain that multi-classing isn't going to come up? It happens all the time. Players make a snap decision or find a neat magic item which would benefit another class more than the one they are currently in and decide to switch to another class. There are many reasons players decide to switch classes with no forethought.

I am saying that I want some level of realism in how this happens. The most common way to explain this is they seek out a trainer who teaches them the ropes of the new class. And it appears you failed to read my other posts. So, I'll repeat it again: if a player plans in advance to multiclass and have chosen a background which supports the new class, then it makes sense they've already received the training, but haven't put it to practical use yet. Presumably, the character is practicing their nascent skills during their downtime.

Here it is again for your convenience:

Additionally, if players in my game have a concept which involves multi-classing, they can select an appropriate background to support the new class when they do make the switch. This represents the time they spent prior to becoming an adventurer training in the skills necessary for their new class.

Hopefully, this clarifies up my position.

Have a great day!

My complaint goes back to my second post of this thread is when a character multi-classes with no planning, no training, or no explanation. I referred to it as *poof* knowledge.

Second, all that stuff about gaining skills within a class: I wasn't referring to that at all.

Third, if someone wants to play hyper realistic game or if they want to play a low realism game, that's their choice. They should not be offended one way or the other if someone recognizes it as such. Pot Tay To, Pot Tah To

I think you're starting to agree with me. So, I'm not sure why you keep replying.

Have a great day!

 

[SuperZero]

Players make a snap decision or find a neat magic item which would benefit another class more than the one they are currently in and decide to switch to another class. There are many reasons players decide to switch classes with no forethought.

So... the character was exposed to something in-game or actively decided to start learning something. I mentioned those as possibilities.

Second, all that stuff about gaining skills within a class: I wasn't referring to that at all.

No, that was me. I referred to that. What's the difference, thematically?
Those abilities were grouped together by designers. The character is still learning brand-new abilities. It's clearly possible.

Third, if someone wants to play hyper realistic game or if they want to play a low realism game, that's their choice. They should not be offended one way or the other if someone recognizes it as such.

Okay. I don't know why you keep bringing that up, though.

 

[Tia Nadiezja]

I'm not sure what my feelings are about adding PrCs to 5e. The mechanic was an absolute mess in 3.x, and I don't want to see PrCs (or feats, for that matter) expand in role the way they both did in WotC's first edition.

On the other hand, the prereq system here? That I like. The Rune Scribe can be reached from any class (since you can get Arcana from background) and its prereqs are built more on stuff done in-game than on stuff done on your character sheet. I would like a guideline for downtime, though... if my GM doesn't really have a place in her campaign for me to meet a teacher on-screen (if I really want to play a Rune Scribe and she's comfortable with the rules for it, she should really be able to drop a master rune into a treasure horde somewhere; it's the extra NPC that could be problematic), how long should it take my character to find one on her own?

 

[Istbor]

The same thing they did with the 'playtest', effectively. The problem being that it's very hard to tell whether something is going to have the right 'feel' until you've actually got a working version to play with.

You have a point there to be sure.

It can also have a potential to build false hope. Seeing something desired in these UAs and then waiting a certain amount of time until acceptance comes that it may never come to pass, can really kill a mood.

*cough* Battle System where are you?! *cough*

 

[Shasarak]

Actually, you didn't explain why characters can instantly know something they never knew before. You basically said, you don't care if they instantly learn an entire skillset which would take someone under normal circumstances months to learn on their own. To that, I said, I prefer a bit more realism as opposed to computer games which tend not to go to that level of realism. I think that's fairly accurate.

When I create a character it instantly learns an entire skillset which would take someone under normal circumstances months to learn on their own.

There is no difference between that and multiclassing through leveling up, except that leveling up is much harder and can take months to do on its own.

 

[Zaran]

No, he gets the spell slots but he cannot learn the spells.


That would be quite broken. Your interpretation makes Wizards (and Wizards alone) immune to the cost of spellcaster multiclassing.

What you do at your home game is up to you, but I need your position to be contested before somebody thinks that is the way the game was intended to be played.

But more importantly here and now: [MENTION=56710]Zaran[/MENTION], you can drop the argument, since Xavian seems to insist on playing a different game than the rest of us.

Yeah, already done.