D&D General here's how to stop jealousy in between lucky players and unlucky ones

[Vaalingrade]

How do you remove system mastery from the character baseline?

The players all have the same numbers period. They don't need to have figured out the best way to use point buy or worry about accidentally screwing themselves because they don't know it.

Point Buy with experienced players is Standard Array with extra steps anyway.

 

[ECMO3]

Rolling abilities leads to a much more immersive game IME and really takes a lot of the whiteroom builds out of it as the stats will overcome a lot of the build theorycrafting.

I have played all 3 PHB methods and some homebrew methods as well. While all of them work rolling generally leads to a more fun game IME.

If you are worried about weak characters there are fixes you can put in place such as minimums, but really the best fix I have seen is a heroic stats generation method adapted from 1E. The player rolls abilities in an order he choses - the first ability he rolls is the one he wants to be highest. He rolls 9d6 and drops 6. Then he picks a second ability and rolls 8d6 drop 5 ..... the last ability he rolls 4d6 drop 1. This leads to very high "heroic" rolls and virtually assures a viable character.

TBH if you are not going to allow rolling I honestly think the best method is simply a different standard array with six 13s, then add any racial modifiers and use your ASIs to differentiate characters. This would also make standard Human the most powerful class.

 

[le Redoutable]

... or else, you could use this :
for those who love rolling dice

 

[seebs]

To have the same numbers, even if they are put in different spots, thus necessarily means "these characters have exactly the same personality,"

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Imagine, if you will, six characters. Each has an 18 in one stat and 10 in all the others. Are you seriously telling me that you would expect "exactly the same personality" from these? How does personality even relate to or come from stats? This just doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Imagine, if you will, six characters. Each has an 18 in one stat and 10 in all the others. Are you seriously telling me that you would expect "exactly the same personality" from these? How does personality even relate to or come from stats? This just doesn't make any sense at all.

I never said it did. I don't share those players' feelings even a bit. But I've had enough people tell me that it's "samey" and that they cannot bring themselves to play someone "born lucky" to know that, whether or not it makes sense to me, it is how they feel. Little to nothing can change this feeling, unfortunately.

 

[SteveC]

Rolling for stats can create a huge disbalance between characters and can make a given character much higher powered against the expectations for the game's balanced accuracy. As a GM I want characters to be within a baseline of ability so I don't have to keep adjusting things. As a player, I don't want people to be much more or less powerful than me.

I definitely get how that isn't for everyone but it's one of my rules I just won't break to play in a game.

 

[le Redoutable]

Hey what about if it was the DM who gives each player his unique chr ( with items spread through out the campaign and reserved for different Chrs )

 

[ECMO3]

Rolling for stats can create a huge disbalance between characters and can make a given character much higher powered against the expectations for the game's balanced accuracy. As a GM I want characters to be within a baseline of ability so I don't have to keep adjusting things. As a player, I don't want people to be much more or less powerful than me.

I definitely get how that isn't for everyone but it's one of my rules I just won't break to play in a game.

I don't think this is really true due to the disparity in the races, classes and subclasses.

At most levels a Dwarf, Goblin or Shadar Kai Wizard with poor ability rolls (say 22 point buy equivalent) is going to be higher powered than a Halfling Monk or Barbarian who rolled very, very well (say 35 point buy equivalent).

IME if your players are experienced they take this into consideration when they build out their character. They will use good rolls to explore weak character designs that are appealing thematically or they balance poor rolls by building a highly optimized character.

This is less true if you are playing with "power gamers" or people who are tied to a specific class and build type.

 

[SteveC]

I don't think this is really true due to the disparity in the races, classes and subclasses.

At most levels a Dwarf, Goblin or Shadar Kai Wizard with poor ability rolls (say 22 point buy equivalent) is going to be higher powered than a Halfling Monk or Barbarian who rolled very, very well (say 35 point buy equivalent).

I guess I will just disagree with this. The most common check I see in campaigns that are even combat focused are skill checks, which use a variety of abilities. Being just better overall at that means you are just better. And for most characters, building around a particular ability score is part of playing the character. In the game I'm playing in right now, I am playing a bard. My goal for that character is to get Charisma as high as possible because just about everything I do is based on that ability. My next character is a bladesinger. Again, Int is the focus for the character.

Being able to reach the stat cap with only one ASI is immensely powerful. It frees me up to do much more interesting things with feats for the character. The difference between, say, a 16 and an 18 is huge. Now imagine multiple 18s. A character with low ability scores it looking at spending the entire game catching up with another character who will just be better.

Now yes, there are some classes that are just not as good as others. That, however, isn't something for ability scores to fix. That's for the designers.

I get that not everyone feels this way, and I'm not going to tell anyone they're wrong. It's just a no-fly for me personally. The notion that it makes me somehow a power gamer is just silly. I'm not interested in being the star of the show, and I want everyone to shine, it's just that simple. And as someone who GMs a lot, a character who's just not as good as the other characters mechanically isn't something that I view as being made up with roleplay, or class selection either. It's a YMMV situation, and definitely yours does.

 

[Ancalagon]

I would be remiss not to mention EN World's own excellent solution - the Redrick Roller!

Redrick Roller