Heroes Of Battle SUCKS!!! (IMHO)

[diaglo]

i haven't seen this in the bookstores near me yet.

 

[Beholder Bob]

It sounds like it will be an okay resource for, well, battles, but in the end I don't see why you are whining so much. 20 pages to help a player? Well, it's about time that a book dedicated to Dungeon Masters is made.

I'm not complaining about the lack of prestige classes, feats, or spells - frankly, I'm not in need of more unless of exceptional quality. Rather, from the blurb on this book (put out by the WOTC)

...6. Build a Better You: It's not just the numbers that count. Stories of war are stories of adventure. Heroes of Battle can help you weave elements of military life into your character's history to make a cohesive and compelling background.

...4. Skills of War:Heroes of Battle isn't a mass combat book -- it's a book about your character and what he character can do. In its pages, you'll find new battlefield uses for fourteen of the D&D game's most crucial skills, all of which are quite useful once initiative has been rolled.

If failed to give real texture to a PC. I want suggestions for history, personality, how it effects the growth of my PC, how it dominates his past. I'm talking about the role playing aspect. They advertise this book for DM & player - but I do not see much here for the player at all!

As for the skills - the section was tiny and, well, unimpressive. The complete ____ books did a much better job. I want new skills or better development for old ones, such as siege and tactics.

As a player, this book is almost absolutely useless.
As a DM, I find this book a severe disappointment. Want to cover concept rather then crunch - ok, but then I want a LOT of flavor and concept. I do not see war torn country sides, villages decimated by allies stripping them bare, black markets, loyalty or reputation due to military action, sentry posts in the rain, fields of mud and blood, misercords and travel through the dead and dying. I felt no 'horrors of war'. I did not feel the knightly battles, nor the noble stand against the hordes. All I got was pabulum.

It did not give me flavor. The ideas were not that grand. It did not blow up my skirt. Without that, all a book has left is crunch, which was hodgepodge and pointless.

Hey, but that’s just me.

BB

 

[Shemeska]

Well, I don't know if you picked up Champions of Ruin after all but after flipping through CoR and reading HoB cover to cover, HoB comes out on top. I'd give it a 4/5 score.

I haven't, at least not yet. I'm still going to give it a look in person once the stores around me start carrying copies. I'll give HoB a look as well. Thanks

 

[buzz]

While i haven't read the book cover to cover...

Flipping through it...

Gotcha.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

BUT, the big turn off for me has been the "modernist" approach that seems to permiate the book, at least from everything posted and previewed. How hard would it be to use this book if I wanted a very ancient, or medieval feel to the combat, or more traditional fantasy (LotR)?

It shouldn't be too difficult; going after the enemy commander is a time-honored tradition (Alexander going after Darius at Gaugamela, for example). For your examples, you can use
each as the basis for a mission with no real issue.

Of course, if you're looking for a "realistic ancient/medieval feel", D&D is absolutely the worst game for that. Phalanxes are utter meat to anyone who can cast an enlarged fireball, and tossing a fear effect on even seasoned infantry will help break their formation so your cavalry can slaughter them.

Brad

 

[TerraDave]

Of course, if you're looking for a "realistic ancient/medieval feel", D&D is absolutely the worst game for that. Phalanxes are utter meat to anyone who can cast an enlarged fireball, and tossing a fear effect on even seasoned infantry will help break their formation so your cavalry can slaughter them.

Brad

But see, this is what I would like to see played out, and just how bad or good would it be (of course, I guess it would fit with the "modernist feel", machine guns and high explosives never stopped comanders from using massed infantry).

In any case, thanks for the reply.

 

[mmadsen]

But see, this is what I would like to see played out...

Agreed. I want a system for playing out ancient/medieval combat with magic. I'd like to see the default D&D assumptions played out, and I'd like to see a few simple twists that could change all that.

Maybe a tortoise formation offers full cover versus fireball. Maybe a legion's standard offers it magical protection. Maybe wizards have more large-scale magical defenses they can place over allied troops.

 

[swordsmasher]

Gotcha.

Flipping through it does not mean "Look at feats, Look at Prestige classes, Formulate Opinion."

Flipping through it means I read a good 1/3rd of the book to get the books theme and to see if it worked for me. and like i said, most of it did not. This may be because i am ex-military myself and a lot of the book was No Duh stuff for me; but really most of the book could be gleaned from watching the discovery channel or reading some dragonlance novels.

I liked the artwork a lot.

really, 4/5 isn't that bad of a score for me. Maybe if the book had a little more, i honestly think it was only missing a few things:

A couple more feats that don't suck and could actually do something; even some tactical feats or teamwork feats. Come one! i was in a military strike unit, and i can honestly say that together we could kick major donkey-behind, while one of us alone wouldn't complete even 10% of what we did together. Hoorah!

Better prestige classes, and maybe a few more. What, no War Wizard? No Assassin type that is designed to determine the force's leader and take him out! No Propaganda Bard types to spread disorder among the enemy's camp? No Dwarven Spotter's whose goal is to determine the ebnemy forces strong points (including units and fortifications)?

Another thing that turned me off: How many darn times do we need to see how best to lob a fireball at the enemy? When are we going to see: This is how you fight a war with NO MAGIC-USERS!

As for 8 enemies at a time. Pshaw. My 8 man firing team took out a unit of at least 30 back in Bosnia. and we lost ONE man and he was shot in the leg while we were deploying.

What I also would have liked to see would maybe be some character concepts:

Kill Crazy: You go overboard during combat. You live to fight, and are at home behind the crossbow or the greataxe. You will not stop fighting until ordered (at least twice) to do so, or all of the enemy unit's personnel are decimated.

Scarred Veteran: You have survived the horrors of war and been drummed out of the service because of your mental instability. You suffer from nightmares constantly, and jump at sudden noises and movement. You tend to have a pessimistec outlook on life, and seem to always remember your life better before you joined the military. In life, you often find yourself attracted to those people you knew before the military, ie past girlfriends, old Taverns you used to frequent. At times, you even find yourself hating what you did or have become, and can even blame others around you for your problems.

Supply Wizard: If it needs to be found, you can get it. No matter where your unit has been deployed to. If the Sarge needs a pair of brass d20's for his gaming group, somehow you always manage to find platinum d20's for his gaming group.

Career Soldier: You were a poor commoner before the life of the soldier showed you that you could belong to something larger than yourself. Whererver you go and whatever your unit accomplishes, you feel like you are making a difference in the world. You'll never quit, until old age takes you.

Buffoon: You joined because some friends did or because you had nothing better to do. Now you keep other soldiers around you smiling and happy because of your pranks or your jokes. Sometimes this gets you into trouble, but that's okay. Only sometimes at night when you are alone and wondering why no one understands you do you really get serious.

Melancholy: You used to be a soldier, then your unit was destroyed, or you were forced into retirement. Life just hasn't been the same. You go from job to job, wishing you were back in the serice, and remembering the good old days. At times you drink yourself senseless, or carouse with women to forget your sorrows. Then along comes the young upstart in dire need of training. Could he be your salvation?

Military Meathead: You think you are the Drill Instructor. During training, you were his eyes and ears when he was off duty. Other soldiers despise you for what you are (unless they too are Meatheads). Everything must be perfect and well ordered. Your armor is always shining, your sword is always sharpened and well oiled. Discipline and order are paramount to your survival. While others may not trust you or even want to be around you, you know that when inspections come around, you could be thier best friend.

There could be a lot more! Any veteran's or active duty out there think of any more? I'd love to see some!

 

[Mystery Man]

Waiting patiently for DMG II and Waterdeep. Until then the wallet stays shut.

 

[buzz]

Flipping through it means I read a good 1/3rd of the book to get the books theme and to see if it worked for me.

Understood, but that still doesn't constitute a thorough enough reading for me to value your assessment too highly, much less justify, in my mind, a thread title with the word "sucks" in capitals followed by three exclamation points.

This may be because i am ex-military myself and a lot of the book was No Duh stuff for me; but really most of the book could be gleaned from watching the discovery channel or reading some dragonlance novels.

Well, you can say the same about almost any RPG book on a given subject, e.g., pretty much every GURPS book ever written. That doesn't necessarily make the product useless to people who don't have a background in the subject nor who want to do all fo their own research. Compiling the info into a single, RPG-focused book is supposed to eliminate the need to, say, join the armed forces, watch documentaries, and read related novels.

Another thing that turned me off: How many darn times do we need to see how best to lob a fireball at the enemy? When are we going to see: This is how you fight a war with NO MAGIC-USERS!

In a book for an RPG that's not D&D, probably. It's like asking why a Champions sourcebook has to devote so much space to superheroes. It's intrinsic to the game.

Anyway, I can go to any library to learn about magic-less medieval warfare. In a D&D supplement, I want to know about how to fight a war with what's avaiable in D&D.