Heroes of Horror question re: Cas

[Mouseferatu]

He won't see play in my game... I can't get over the whole Moose Head thing.

Ken

I'm curious--and please don't interpret this as me being snarky or argumentative, I mean this is an honest question--why is that an issue? I've heard the same comment from a lot of people, but consider...

Animal-headed gods are pervasive in the mythology of both historical and fictional cultures. Ancient Egypt, for instance, was chock-full of them. Some of them were predatory--crocodiles, cats, hawks--but others were not. Egypt had more than one cow-headed god. The master of the Wild Hunt in Celtic myth has deer antlers.

Moving on to actual D&D material, check out the archfiends. Demogorgon has baboon heads. Pazuzu has a bird head. Anthraxus has the head of a diseased ram. Baphomet has the head of a bull. Balzebul's current incarnation is a giant slug.

Moose in the real world may be herbivores, but they're big, strong, powerful creatures. And during the proper time of the year, they can be extremely aggressive.

Is it the fact that Bullwinkle was a moose? There are plenty of other animals that have had cartoon incarnations, but that doesn't render them inappropriate for other uses, right?

So why do people have such a strong reaction to Cas having a moose head?

 

[Mark Hope]

Good question. It wasn't a major stumbling block for me, but I have to admit that I did go "Er, okaaay... a moose..." for a minute when I read the Cas entry. Maybe it is the Bullwinkle thing, with a bit of Monty Python thrown in. Plus, meese are pretty funny-looking too, what with the huge antlers and the flared nostrils. Dunno really - can't quite put my finger on it, but it does seem a little funny...

 

[BryonD]

In my opinion, you are on the wrong track.

First, historical and even fictional cultures are not sufficient basis.
Gaming has its own immersion element that requires more than that. Sure, most of the time archetypes play very strongly into that. But it still isn't enough.

But a moose just isn't evocative of respect. Particullarly not just a moose head.
My reaction to a moose is that if I ran across one in the wild I wouldn't want to make it mad. But if I don't do anything to make it mad I'll be fine.
Perhaps my southern US living expectation is way off there.
But it is irrellevant whether I am right or wrong because that is what I think.
So an big evil thing that evokes "don't bother it and it won't bother you" thoughts isn't really going to work for me.

FWIW, when I think of a moose I think of Cicely Alaska and a moose just strolling through town.

Compare that to the other animals you listed. Baboons have a vibe of devious intelligence. Bulls have a aggresive strength reputation. Birds, eh, not scary alone, but intelligent. Disease is obvious enough, and rams got a lesser version of the bull thing going, plus a little devil stereotype piled on.

A moose just seems docile and dumb. (Again, if I'm just ignorant anbout them, it doesn't make any difference, perception is the only relality)

One of the characters in my current game is a Green Ronin Shaman / Healer. He has the Strength domain. I assigned the character a Water Buffalo totem. Kinda the same thing. Rather than pick a bull or bear or some butt-kicker of an animal, I picked an animal that presents of image of strength, but strength that is passive and mainly useful for making certain that aggression from other is stopped. I wouldn't have used a water buffalo head for a demon.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Bryon,

I agree that if that is your reaction, it's irrelevent how accurate that perception may or may not be. That's why I asked the question. I wasn't trying to tell people how they should react; I wanted to know why they reacted as they did, and to explain what our own thought procceses were. You've answered the question, at least from your own perspective, and that's what I was after.

 

[BryonD]

Didn't mean to imply you were telling people how they should react.
Sorry if you got that idea.
Guess I just got wordy trying to estblish my point.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I keept thinking of Fawlty Towers where the Moose Head falls on Mt. Fawlty and of course we have Puck from the old Midnight Summer's Dream.

Moose does not scream conflict to me. It screams comedy.

And I haven't finished looking through the book, but I see a lot of reference to Robert E. Howard and Clark Ahston Smith among others, but no bibliography. Perhaps it's just me, but for a long time, these authors have been out of print and in print. I know for example, that a company is working on reprinting CAS stuff (Clark Ahston Smith).

And Howard's stuff... even his material collected by Chaosium in Nameless Cults, doesn't really reflect "horror" as much as pulp fiction. I'll never forget this short story I read where all these different authors, including H. P. Lovecraft. C. L. Moore, and Robert E. Howard among others, did this story and when it comes to Howard's turn, the thing that was once a man basically takes over the alien society he finds himself in.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

My first thought - Bullwinkle

My second thought - Monty Python

My third thought - Hunting lodge wall

I guess that for me, if there is no "coolness" factor then I will probably ignore, scoff at or roll my eyes at it. A moose is not, in my opinion, a "coolness" evoking image (no offense meant, moose enthusiasts).

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Moose

I think ByronD summed up what I was thinking.

Plus, a Moose will always have comedic associations for me, mostly due to Rocky and Bullwinkle, and maybe a little bit because of Monty Python.

And funny works, but I don't think it's the vibe you want in a horror game.

To be honest, I wouldn't have associated an animal head with Spite. To me, Spite is an emotion that I associate with humans, not with animals.

Ken

 

[Erik Mona]

Is this the guy who killed Vecna?

No?

Hmmmm.

--Erik

 

[Mouseferatu]

Is this the guy who killed Vecna?

No?

Hmmmm.

--Erik

No, just an unfortunate coincidence in naming that we--I am ashamed to admit--didn't think might be confusing until too late.