Heroes of the Fallen Lands - Feat Preview

[keterys]

I wonder how many of these two for one feats we'll get. Something static combined with something interesting. Hope they don't do it only for defensive feats.

They've already previewed a Bludgeoning Expertise that is Expertise plus +1 on pushes with maces and hammers.

So, yeah,not just defensive.

 

[knightofround]

I would've prefered +1/+2/+3 scaling instead of 2/3/4 to keep the current feats from being totally outdated...and obviously there will need to be errata added to Epic FRW.

But this is exactly what "statistical" feats such as weapon focus etc should have been like all along. Very welcome addition to the game imo.

 

[LuckyAdrastus]

It seems odd to me that a feat which boosts Will defense requires a high Wisdom or Charisma scores. Sure, it makes simulationist logic, but I'd think the feat would be most useful to PCs who are in a class/build that has a weak Will defense because it relies on neither Wisdom or Charisma. Then it could boost classes with unusually low Will defeneses, rather than giving characters with already high will defenses an even more un-hittable number, which 4e is generally supposed to avoid.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

As I said, it needs a little brother, that does something similar, without the added benefit.

This way you have a stopgap feat for everyone, and a feat with an added effect for those that have better base stats.

this way, the feat investment for balanced characters is reduced... one way to encourage balanced stats. (This could be a model for melee training too: have strength 15 and you may use your full bonus to damage)

Maybe the feat could be even better:
Special: If your wisdom or charisma is 15+, you may save against...

Also i want to emphazize how important that you may sae, even if it normally allows no save. I hope this wording will find its way into the healing skill and every other extra save mechanic...

 

[Joshua Randall]

That it requires Cha/Wis 15 doesn't make any sense.

"You've already got a good Will defense, so here's a feat to make it better and to get you out of daze/stun. Oh, you PCs with no need for Cha/Wis who have a low Will and would like to improve it? Suck it!"

But anyway, I'm thinking this feat is pretty much mandatory if you can afford it.

 

[LuckyAdrastus]

Also i want to emphazize how important that you may sae, even if it normally allows no save. I hope this wording will find its way into the healing skill and every other extra save mechanic...

Yeah, one of the (unintended?) features of 4e is that "until the end of X's next turn" is often better than "[save ends]." One reason is that you can usually only grant extra saving throws against conditions with a [save ends].

Also, when fighting solos and elites with saving throw bonuses, you generally prefer "end of next turn" durations, because they usually last much longer than the save, which the monster usually makes (before the end of your next turn, if you put the effect on it) or even at the start of their turn, or as an immediate reaction, as many solos have special defenses against [save ends] effects.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Yeah, one of the (unintended?) features of 4e is that "until the end of X's next turn" is often better than "[save ends]." One reason is that you can usually only grant extra saving throws against conditions with a [save ends].

Right on!

I wonder if a house rule, that granting a (save) could grant you one even against effects that a save cannot normally end, would make such things too powerful? (Especially the save granting at-will powers.) But I'm getting off topic....

I think Wizards' problem is that they have realized that daze/stun are not much fun, and are far too common, but finding ways around that without redesigning the whole game is tough. Paradoxically, the easier they make it for people to mitigate daze/stun, the more those methods of mitigation become "must haves" and the more people complain about it.

Not that I have any brilliant suggestions; just observing.

 

[LuckyAdrastus]

Not that I have any brilliant suggestions; just observing.

Hey, I agree with your observations. Last summer, I played a game of Mutants and Masterminds, which is a d20 system game (I believe it was the 2nd edition of that game). The flavor and stuff was spot-on, and I had a good time, but mechanically, it was pretty annoying. In particular, stuns are baked into the game system -- get hit too hard, and you get stunned. It ends up happening about 1 out of every 3 rounds. So you spend 33% of your time twiddling your thumbs. Blech.

So, at least they have a lot less of it in 4e. I did have a fight against a bunch of ettercaps recently, with lots of immobilizes and restraints to limit us. We got through the fight (the warlord was chucking javelins at minions while immobilized) but it was kinda weird. My monk basically moved once the entire fight, then spent the rest sitting in one spot covered in spider-webs, punching monsters that came near to melee him.

 

[hafrogman]

I think the stat requirement actually gives it an interesting angle. It's probably not the best feat you could get if you're a cleric, you have a prime stat and a class bonus to will already. Sure the bonus is nice, but you risk being one dimensional. It's far more interesting to classes that have wisdom and charisma as secondary stats, and no class bonuses to will.

Fighters, artful dodger rogues and thaneborn barbarians are the best bets. A brutal scoundrel rogues might be better off with the fort equivalent. It probably still would be best if they were three mutually exclusive feats.

 

[Mengu]

Fighters, artful dodger rogues and thaneborn barbarians are the best bets. A brutal scoundrel rogues might be better off with the fort equivalent. It probably still would be best if they were three mutually exclusive feats.

Indeed, the feat immediately made me think of my Thaneborn Barbarian. It's a very attractive feat. But then I thought it would be even better for my Inspiring Warlord since he makes use of his move and minor actions a lot more than the barbarian who still has pressing strike and charge options while dazed. And most charisma warlocks, wisdom rangers, etc will go after this feat because they need their move, minor, immediate actions. The +X Will is more of a happenstance on this feat, the usefulness of making a save will determine if and when a character picks this up (as well as the stat requirement of course).