Heroes of the Fallen Lands - Feat Preview

[DEFCON 1]

The Prereqs just seem backwards to me. You need a 15 in either Wis or Cha, so right there, that character already has at least a +2 to will from attribute bonus alone.

The character who needs this feat is the one that doesn't have Wis or Cha as a prime or secondary stat, like the Fighter for example (traditionally low Will saves/defenses).

Seems backwards to me...

And this is exactly why this is not a "feat tax" feat. If there was no prereq, then people would (probably rightly) claim that the feat is so good for the low-Will classes that it's practically required. Thus the "feat tax" nomenclature.

However, with the prereq... it's now a feat for characters who have good Wills to have great Wills. And in that regard, it's no longer a necessity to take, it almost becomes a flavor choice feat. "My PC is so mentally tough that nothing can affect him!". That's why it is good feat design... because it isn't required to take. You can if you want to go from really good to great, but it's by no means a slam dunk choice.

Look at it this way... what if there was no Plate Armor Proficiency prereq that said you had to be proficient with Scale (and Scale had no Chain prereq etc.?) We'd have the same situation. A low Dex/Int character proficient in only light armor would be almost required to take Plate Mail proficiency, because the jump from bad AC to good AC was just so great. (Just like a low Will PC taking this new Will feat). However, a PC with Scale taking the Plate Armor feat is no big deal, because it's a strong AC character getting just a little bit stronger (nowhere near enough for it to be a necessity for the character to take it if he didn't want to.)

So the prereqs for this feat make perfect sense.

 

[Klaus]

The Prereqs just seem backwards to me. You need a 15 in either Wis or Cha, so right there, that character already has at least a +2 to will from attribute bonus alone.

The character who needs this feat is the one that doesn't have Wis or Cha as a prime or secondary stat, like the Fighter for example (traditionally low Will saves/defenses).

Seems backwards to me...

While a character with Wis or Cha as primary stat *could* take this feat right out of the gate, they probably won't (or wouldn't, if it weren't for the additional save).

BUT, and here's where the design is good, by Epic, a character that started with Wis or Cha 13 and never bumped either stat will qualify automatically, and benefit greatly (+4 Will and additional save).

So, instead of making this an Epic tier feat with no requirements, WotC opted to put in a hefty ability score requirement and make it open for all tiers. This way, some heroic characters can take it if their builds warrant it, and it become progressively more available as the tiers progress.

 

[keterys]

I've got an awful lot of characters, but I think they might _all_ qualify for this feat by 21st. Maybe not my swordmage/warlock (but maybe), but honestly, I'm okay slapping a point in or tweaking him slightly to make it happen. 16/16/13 instead of 16/16/12/12 is fine.

 

[Joshua Randall]

While a character with Wis or Cha as primary stat *could* take this feat right out of the gate, they probably won't (or wouldn't, if it weren't for the additional save).

The additional save is what makes Superior Will a must-have feat.

Saving out of daze/stun before they affect you, and even if they don't normally grant a save, is so good that if you qualify for Superior Will and do not take it, you are making a very suboptimal choice.

If they made a feat called I Hate Daze that was exactly the same as Superior Will but without the +2/+3/+4 bonus to Will, it would still be a good feat. And if you qualified for it (Wis or Cha 15) you would still need a darn good reason not to take it.

The +2/+3/+4 Will is just gravy. It's the save out of daze/stun that makes this feat amazing.

 

[keterys]

Which is their way of making sure the fixed math gets out to everybody, eh?

 

[Lord Ernie]

My Cleric|Invoker-Divine Oracle is particularly happy with this feat, and I'll be taking it from level 16 onwards. This will take the punch out of Terrifying Insight a bit .

A bit more on-topic: this is an excellent way to provide so-called math fixes with added benefits (which make them actually interesting) and rewarding players for placing a 13 in one of their weakest ability scores (or raising it once). For those that don't meet the prereqs, there is still epic will to boost that weak defense.

I'm curious to know what the reflex and fortitude versions look like... maybe fortitude to save against ongoing damage before actually taking it, and reflex to get out of immobilization and slowing?

 

[RigaMortus2]

The Fighter does use Wisdom as a secondary stat.

More importantly, there's nothing wrong with Feats designed to let a player have their character be really good in one specialized area if that's what they want. I rather suspect other feats will be available to let players patch up their weak points.

Depends on the Fighter build I suppose, but I'd put Wisdom as a teritary stat for most Fighter builds I make, no matter what the book suggests.

But, by reducing the prereq, you can still have a character that is really good in that area (vs Will attacks) AND you open up the option for a character with a low Will defense (and lower Cha and Wis) to get slightly better at it. You actually get MORE options for character builds by removing (or reducing) the prereq. You can do as you suggest and then some.

 

[RigaMortus2]

While a character with Wis or Cha as primary stat *could* take this feat right out of the gate, they probably won't (or wouldn't, if it weren't for the additional save).

BUT, and here's where the design is good, by Epic, a character that started with Wis or Cha 13 and never bumped either stat will qualify automatically, and benefit greatly (+4 Will and additional save).

So, instead of making this an Epic tier feat with no requirements, WotC opted to put in a hefty ability score requirement and make it open for all tiers. This way, some heroic characters can take it if their builds warrant it, and it become progressively more available as the tiers progress.

I have to say, that is a good point you make here. If you pre-plan your character, all you need to do is start with a 13 in either Wis or Cha, and by Epic, you'll get two +1 bumps (bringing it to 15) which will qualify you for the feat. I guess that is one way to do it. You'll have to wait until Epic, but that is probably when the feat is more necessary.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I love how everyone says "just wait until Epic" as if that were nothing. That's probably 2 years of play!

 

[keterys]

You only get 6 feats in heroic. I doubt I play any characters that would take this as one of their heroic feats, unless I really came up dry on something I wanted.

So it's already a mostly paragon choice, and if you don't qualify now, you can easily qualify a bit later at that point.