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Heroic Tier "Prestige Classes"

Lord Zack

Explorer
Well we know the Paragon Tier will be giving you Paragon Paths and that the Epic Tier will be giving you Epic Destinies. But I think some concepts might be similar, but yet more suited for the Heroic Tier. But I don't think that it should work exactly like Paragon Paths or Epic Destinies. Some such concepts might fit into base classes, either as a new class to it's self or as part of one or more others, but I think others, particularly the Ur'Priest and Blighter would be more "open", so an Ur'Priest could have Wizard, Sorceror, Psion, ect. levels, but also be an Ur'Priest. Here's how I think it should be done: these should be feats, like the Class Training Feats, which give you appropriate abilities and such, but there's no actual class.
 

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outsider

First Post
I've got a theory on how the "class training" feats work out. Presumably 4e classes have talent trees like Star Wars classes have. I'm guessing a "class training" feat basically gives you access to one of those trees from another class. If that's accurate, I don't see any reason why you couldn't just create a talent tree that no class actually has access to, just allowing a training feat to open it up.

Then again my theory could be completely wrong. :\
 

Lord Zack

Explorer
Belorin said:
I think it's called multi-classing.

Bel

How do you get a Ur'Priest (ok that one I'll give since you could make an Ur'Priest themed cleric, but I do think that my way would be better) or Blighter by multiclassing? I don't think they'd have they're own classes.

Another use for this kind of thing I pointed out over on planewalker.com, as a way to represent the unusual abilities of Planescape's factions. There wouldn't be an Athar class, but you could take a feat to gain them and also perhaps gain other benefits that make's you more "Athary" depending on exactly how the Class Training Feats work.
 

I really hope that prestige classes are gone and that there are simply heroic classes that go 1-10, paragon classes that go 11-20 (replacing current prestige classes), and epic destinies for 21-30.

It would be really great to get back to letting my PC grow organically again, not needing to worry about planning his feats and skills out from level 1.

Ken
 

Lord Zack

Explorer
Well the thing about this idea is that these feats would really just be ways to flavor you're character a bit and give him some unique capabilities. My concept is that you'd even be able to gain them at first level (if you can get normal training feats at 1st level). The prerequisites would be minimal to nil. You'd just have to take the feat. And my understanding of Paragon Paths are that there would be little to no prerequisites and they'd advance alongside you're main class, rather than replacing it.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Haffrung Helleyes said:
I really hope that prestige classes are gone and that there are simply heroic classes that go 1-10, paragon classes that go 11-20 (replacing current prestige classes), and epic destinies for 21-30.

It would be really great to get back to letting my PC grow organically again, not needing to worry about planning his feats and skills out from level 1.

Ken

Actually, from what I hear, you get heroic classes that go 1-30, with paragon paths (11-20) and epic destinies (21-30) layered on top of that.
 


mach1.9pants

Adventurer
outsider said:
I've got a theory on how the "class training" feats work out. Presumably 4e classes have talent trees like Star Wars classes have. I'm guessing a "class training" feat basically gives you access to one of those trees from another class. If that's accurate, I don't see any reason why you couldn't just create a talent tree that no class actually has access to, just allowing a training feat to open it up.

Then again my theory could be completely wrong. :\
I hope you are right, it sounds like a great idea to get 'prestige classes' in the heroic tier. I really like using prestige classes as membership of specific orders or groups. Your idea makes it even better, rather than the order (whatever) totally 'taking over' your PC: you have access to powers etc that just that order has, but still greater that just a feat or series of feats. Like racial substitution levels, but with more effect to your characters progression.
 

Gort

Explorer
Mistwell said:
I hope they go with advanced classes, like in d20 Modern.
They already said that if you start a barbarian you stay a barbarian for all 30 levels. So no prestige classes or advanced classes. You just get to choose an extra power set that goes on top of that when you become a paragon, and again when you go epic.

On the subject of class training feats, my assumption is that they allow you to pick one power of an appropriate level from another class. So you can grab fireball at the same time the wizard gets it, for instance, or some acrobatic leap thing that gives you combat advantage at the same time as the rogue gets it.
 

The Eternal GM

First Post
I really would be happy never to see prestige classes again. What started out as a small 'fill odd niche' rule in the 3.5 DMG soon became the bane of my life as every supplement was packed with the damn things.

I MUCH prefer the paragon path concept. Even if it is a large leap in power/complexity, player's won't be swapping in and out of them.

Talent trees in SWS work very well. I'm running it at present, and they seem ideal. Heroes and villains specialize their classes with talents, or broaden with multi-classing... It works well and there's no negative to doing either. Now that is definitely a step in the right direction for D20.
 


Klaus

First Post
My favorite Prestige Classes were the 5-level ones you could take early and finish by 10th level. I hope there's something like that.
 

glass

(he, him)
outsider said:
I've got a theory on how the "class training" feats work out. Presumably 4e classes have talent trees like Star Wars classes have.
Why do people keep saying this? :confused: As I said in another recent thread, the fact the PCs will be choosing skills, feats, and three kinds of powers makes a sixth type of abilities somewhat redundant. Added to the fact that in a couple of months of previews they have yet to mention talents, and think it is fair to presume that Saga-style talent trees are not in 4e.

EDIT: I suspect that you are close, however. The training feats will allow you to choose other classes' powers.

EDIT2: Well, apparently they now [/i have mentioned talents, so we are having 6 different types PC abilities (not counting fixed class and race abilities). Weird![/i] :confused:

glass.
 
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glass

(he, him)
Mistwell said:
I hope they go with advanced classes, like in d20 Modern.
That would require d20 Modern-style (ie 3e-style) multiclassing, which we know is gone in 4e.

ETA:
Incenjucar said:
I think we still have multiclassing, but every class is a standard 1-30 class.
We will still have something called multiclassing that will allow you to have abilities from multiple classes. They have explicitly said that is will not be the same as 3e multiclassing, and they have explicitly said that is you start as a barbarian you stay a barbarian, regardless of whether you multiclass or not.


glass.
 
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Mustrum_Ridcully

Adventurer
Lord Zack said:
How do you get a Ur'Priest (ok that one I'll give since you could make an Ur'Priest themed cleric, but I do think that my way would be better) or Blighter by multiclassing? I don't think they'd have they're own classes.
You probably don't. At the heroic levels, you are constrained by your chosen class and the class training feats and racial abilities that advance by level grant you. You become a Blighter with a Paragon Path, I guess. Or maybe with some feats or powers/spells, once they are published.

I remember one blog post or article refering to class abilities usually topping out at 10th level. We don't know much about how you can pick up racial abilities (thought he Elf example implies it works by selecting feats), but it seems to me as if we were starting with Racial abilities, going to Paragon abilities and then finally getting Epic Destinies.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
I wonder if the "heroic tier paths" (if they exist at all) will be about specialties or styles like "Fighter, Sword-and-board" vs. "Fighter, Two-handed" vs. "Fighter, Polearm" vs. "Fighter, Dual-weapon".

Alternately, "heroic tier paths" could correspond to allegiance like "Fighter, Knight of the Crown", "Fighter, Watchtower Guard", "Fighter, Freehold Lord", "Fighter, Mercenary", etc.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Quickleaf said:
Alternately, "heroic tier paths" could correspond to allegiance like "Fighter, Knight of the Crown", "Fighter, Watchtower Guard", "Fighter, Freehold Lord", "Fighter, Mercenary", etc.

Why would you bother with game mechanics for these? 3E notwithstanding, there really doesn't need to be a separate class for every conceivable profession.
 

outsider

First Post
glass said:
EDIT: I suspect that you are close, however. The training feats will allow you to choose other classes' powers.


glass.

Yeah, I've been using powers and talents interchangeably so far to refer to the same thing. I just default to calling it talents because the idea of fighters with talents seems to annoy the grognards less than the idea of fighters with powers. ;)
 

Khaim

First Post
Lord Zack said:
How do you get a Ur'Priest (ok that one I'll give since you could make an Ur'Priest themed cleric, but I do think that my way would be better) or Blighter by multiclassing?

You won't. But that's okay, because they're both stupid broken.
 

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