Hestavar: The Bright City

[avin]

first and foremost in-terms of its "purpose" as a transport/trade-hub and a place to hide. Neither of these state, "cosmopolitan" (Sigil doesn't openly embrace people with welcoming arms), nor does it suggest that it has a large commerce (trade in Sigil be smaller, more private and intimate).

I always saw Sigil as a "something else" place, a place with a purpose in the universe, a purpose hidden even by gods.

What's the point of Lady of Pain now, then? Protecting a hub of portals? Meh... any God could do that.

Sigil has a large part on MotP because it already exists and 4E is a soup of all former D&D settings. While this *soup* is something I approve, the way they cook it let a bad taste on my mouth...

Let's face it: AD&D Planescape was more concerned on the political and philosophic aspects of the planes, 4E is more concerned in making planes a place to find monsters and get their loot.

This opinion comes, as I always say, from somebody that likes 4E a lot: me

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Oh of course there is more to Sigil then just that. But when your talking strictly about things like commerce, size of population, how cosmopolitan it is, that is where I think Sigil lies.

 

[Klaus]

That view of the city in the opening page is really off-looking, with the same two mosques repeated over and over again.

And yeah, nice to see an Erynies in one of the illustrations.

The devil-talking-to-angel illustration shows a weakness on the current D&D cosmology: now that angels can be of any alignment, such a pairing isn't automatically jarring as it would be in other mythologies, since that can easily be an Evil angel.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

It is still jarring just in a different way. Remember Angels are all about following their orders to a tie and doing the wishes of the God they work with. Devils are the ones who rebelled against that and killed their God. So to see a Angel and a Devil talking to each other is still two-sides of the coin.

In some regards it is even better, cause now they have more shared heritage.

 

[FourthBear]

First City of Brass is the largest commerce, now Hevastar is the most cosmopolitan... my conspiracy theory about Wotc's 4E crew hate Sigil is becoming stronger.

The quote provided says nowhere that Hevastar is the most cosmopolitan. It says that: "many consider that the cosmopolitan heaven of Hestavar is the most beautiful, richest, and civilized." This not only has the qualifier of "many consider", but has Sigil *ever* been identified as the most beautiful or the richest or the most civilized? I think that if Sigil in 4e *was* identified as those things, there would be an awful caterwauling from Sigil fans as being a radical reworking of the City of Doors.

I don't really think there's much in this article for the ardent Sigil fan to take offense at.

On the article itself, it certainly has a lot more appeal than the city of Union from the Epic Handbook. That's not saying much, though. I'd say it does a good job of presenting a "heavenly, near perfect city" without making it sickly-sweet or eliminating many adventure possibilities. I also don't think it steps on the toes of many other planar and worldly locations.

 

[ferratus]

I don't think heaven, as it is understood in a Christian sense, really has much of a place in a D&D game.

After all, salvation as it is traditionally understood, is a happy ending (or at least the beginning of a happy ending).

This place seems more like a place that is waiting to be ransacked by a demonic or primordial horde. Since someone has already tried, it sets it up nicely that someone (maybe even the PC's with primordial destinies) will try again.

 

[avin]

The quote provided says nowhere that Hevastar is the most cosmopolitan.

The article says clearly (pg. 26, box):

"The most cosmopolitan and accessible of the astral dominions, Hestavar is a fantastically wealthy city of wonders."

So, it's not only "many people saying", is Wotc clearly saying that.

But I'm far from offended. Just not happy with some 4E fluff choices, that's all

 

[wedgeski]

The devil-talking-to-angel illustration shows a weakness on the current D&D cosmology: now that angels can be of any alignment, such a pairing isn't automatically jarring as it would be in other mythologies, since that can easily be an Evil angel.

I found the *image* jarring (and in fact, count me as, erm, jarred when I saw it), but the cosmology that makes such a thing possible raises interesting possibilities IMO.

 

[Nymrohd]

The article says clearly (pg. 26, box):

"The most cosmopolitan and accessible of the astral dominions, Hestavar is a fantastically wealthy city of wonders."

So, it's not only "many people saying", is Wotc clearly saying that.

But I'm far from offended. Just not happy with some 4E fluff choices, that's all

Well it does say astral dominions, not cities. Sigil is not a dominion. It is its own thing.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

There were a lot of big cosmopolitan cities that weren't Sigil back in PS such as Genpoli, Aggrazat, Dis, the City of Star, City of Glass, the Phirblas city demiplane and more, but they were generally only described in passing, and mostly called "burgs" even if they were something that was clearly bigger than Sigil such as being infinite in size.