Heward's Handy Haversack = Quickdraw?
- Thread starter jontherev
- Start date
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
I want to say no.
But I can't really support it.
Personally, I think they've gone the wrong way - I think they should have left retrieving an item from the Haversack as an MEA, and made retrieving a stored item from a normal container a full-round action.
I mean, to get a standard pack off your back, open it, find the flask of acid that's right at the bottom under all your rope and pitons and trail rations 'cos you hardly ever need it, close your pack and put it back on... all in three seconds?
I don't see why retrieving something from the Haversack should be faster than drawing a sword. When you go to get your flask of acid from the very bottom of your Haversack - it's right there on top. When you go to draw your sword - it's right there on your hip where it always is.
So to me, free action for the Haversack doesn't make sense, but that's what the erratum says.
Perhaps you could interpret the "draw a weapon" action to be more than just retrieving it from the bag. Maybe you could manage to require an MEA (or "combined with move") to ready a weapon for melee, but allow thrown weapons to be produced from the Haversack as free actions.
-Hyp.
MythandLore
First Post
jontherev said:
If you use it the way it's listed in the DMG, it pretty much is.
But keep in mind it is only quickdraw for blunt weapons. If someone quickdraws a sword (or even a dagger), it is still going to be in it's sheath. Removing the sheath is a MEA. If they don't want to keep their sharp weapons sheathed in the Haversack, then they are going to poke a hole in it (and lose everything inside) fairly quickly.
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Our house rule on the subject...
We have decided to rule the following way regarding this subject:
1) Haversack and belt pouches require a MEA to get something from it.
2) Backpacks and Bags of Holding are Full Round Actions.
This makes more sense to us. After all, backpacks have to be unslung, opened and sifted through. And a bag of holding is a huge, area to have to muddle through to find what you are looking for.
We have decided to rule the following way regarding this subject:
1) Haversack and belt pouches require a MEA to get something from it.
2) Backpacks and Bags of Holding are Full Round Actions.
This makes more sense to us. After all, backpacks have to be unslung, opened and sifted through. And a bag of holding is a huge, area to have to muddle through to find what you are looking for.
Re: Our house rule on the subject...
I agree on backpacks, but the haversack is magical and everytime your hand goes to it, the item is there for you. It's similar to a quiver, which is also a free action. As for your houserule on the Bag of Holding, I find it unnecessary. As per the description, it is a move-equivalent action to retrieve any item, but it is a full-round action if it carries more stuff than a normal backpack could carry. These are not overpowering items in need of nerfing imo. My 2 cents.
Corwin said:
I agree on backpacks, but the haversack is magical and everytime your hand goes to it, the item is there for you. It's similar to a quiver, which is also a free action. As for your houserule on the Bag of Holding, I find it unnecessary. As per the description, it is a move-equivalent action to retrieve any item, but it is a full-round action if it carries more stuff than a normal backpack could carry. These are not overpowering items in need of nerfing imo. My 2 cents.
Artoomis
First Post
I'd say no.
Just because the item is there for you to grab, does not mean it is in the right orientation to be used, and, of course, edged weapons would be sheathed, I would think.
I'd keep it the same as drawing a weapon normally, it's a MEA unless you are moving and have +1 BAB or have the "Quickdraw" feat. It's easy enough to justify this position, and keeps consistency.
Just because the item is there for you to grab, does not mean it is in the right orientation to be used, and, of course, edged weapons would be sheathed, I would think.
I'd keep it the same as drawing a weapon normally, it's a MEA unless you are moving and have +1 BAB or have the "Quickdraw" feat. It's easy enough to justify this position, and keeps consistency.
You also have to actually *open* the haversack. Unless you somehow have the sack rigged to be more like a basket hanging at your waist, I can't see how you could put away whatever was in your hand, pull the sack open and reach in all as a free action.
Every try to open your dice bag with one hand? Even with two, it still takes a moment.
I think what is important to remember is that the haversack doesn't just automatically place an item in your hand as soon as your hand gets withing a foot of it like you are summoning your light sabre lying on the ground. You still have to open the sack, reach in and withdraw the item. The advantage of the sack is that you don't have to dig around trying to find the right item.
Every try to open your dice bag with one hand? Even with two, it still takes a moment.
I think what is important to remember is that the haversack doesn't just automatically place an item in your hand as soon as your hand gets withing a foot of it like you are summoning your light sabre lying on the ground. You still have to open the sack, reach in and withdraw the item. The advantage of the sack is that you don't have to dig around trying to find the right item.
Re: Re: Our house rule on the subject...
So if I place a shortsword in a quiver, should I be allowed to draw it as a free action? That seems to be your implication. The fact that it's a quiver does not mean drawing from it is a free action. It is that the item you are drawing is an arrow and that is what is free. This was done to allow high level characters to fire multiple shots. Otherwise, you are restricted by the need to draw each arrow. I agree with others here, the Haversack moves the item to the top, not put it in your hand in a flash, ready to use. I feel it was a mistake for them to change it in the errata. But they had to do something to distinguish it from other storage containers because of it's special ability to gfive you the item you need.
Having the Haversack let you draw everything as a free action is effectively giving the owner quickdraw for free with everything. We don't agree with that.
For game balance, and I fell the need to re-itterate, our house rule was to do as I said previously. This is our house rule. You don't have to playu that way. It's what works for us. If you want to let everyone with a Haversack get quickdraw for free, go for it.
And we don't play it that way. As I said before, the bag of holding is a big extradimensional storage space. You can stuff all kinds of stuff in there, but you have to find it to get it back out. So we rulled that it is a Full Round Action to retrieve stuff. By ruling this way, we were able to reset the Haversack back to a MEA and that signifies the Haversack's special power of finding the item for you. Otherwise, what is the point of the special ability if it is the same as a bag of holding?
And I contend that the free quickdraw is too valuable for the cost of the Haversack. It becomes as necessary as Boots of Standard Equipment (Striding & Springing). Who wopuldn't want a Haversack for all their stuff? Free drawing potions, wand, swords, scrolls, whatever you need, and still be able to move and use the item in the same round! So much for the need to ever take the quickdraw feat.
But, hey, like I said, this is just how we do it in our game. To each his/her/its own.
jontherev said:
So if I place a shortsword in a quiver, should I be allowed to draw it as a free action? That seems to be your implication. The fact that it's a quiver does not mean drawing from it is a free action. It is that the item you are drawing is an arrow and that is what is free. This was done to allow high level characters to fire multiple shots. Otherwise, you are restricted by the need to draw each arrow. I agree with others here, the Haversack moves the item to the top, not put it in your hand in a flash, ready to use. I feel it was a mistake for them to change it in the errata. But they had to do something to distinguish it from other storage containers because of it's special ability to gfive you the item you need.
Having the Haversack let you draw everything as a free action is effectively giving the owner quickdraw for free with everything. We don't agree with that.
For game balance, and I fell the need to re-itterate, our house rule was to do as I said previously. This is our house rule. You don't have to playu that way. It's what works for us. If you want to let everyone with a Haversack get quickdraw for free, go for it.
jontherev said:
And we don't play it that way. As I said before, the bag of holding is a big extradimensional storage space. You can stuff all kinds of stuff in there, but you have to find it to get it back out. So we rulled that it is a Full Round Action to retrieve stuff. By ruling this way, we were able to reset the Haversack back to a MEA and that signifies the Haversack's special power of finding the item for you. Otherwise, what is the point of the special ability if it is the same as a bag of holding?
jontherev said:
And I contend that the free quickdraw is too valuable for the cost of the Haversack. It becomes as necessary as Boots of Standard Equipment (Striding & Springing). Who wopuldn't want a Haversack for all their stuff? Free drawing potions, wand, swords, scrolls, whatever you need, and still be able to move and use the item in the same round! So much for the need to ever take the quickdraw feat.
But, hey, like I said, this is just how we do it in our game. To each his/her/its own.
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