Parmandur
Book-Friend
True, though they did provide ample notice.
D&D General Hey, are we all cool with having to buy the same book twice, or what?
True, though they did provide ample notice.
teitan
Legend
TSR was always run like a business and about the money. It was poorly run but you read those old Strategic Reviews and statements from TSR about D&D or AD&D and it was very corporate and controlling. What made it worse wasn’t that they became more corporate, or even more money oriented. It’s that they were poor accountants and mismanaged money, use the company and their publishing arm as a piggy bank, published product at prices that were cheaper than cost and not because they loved fans but because they didn’t do the numbers to see how much they actually needed to charge. Bad investments in IP and other unrelated companies. Pushing out bad ideas and game designs.
The golden age of TSR creativity is smack dab in the middle of the “bad corporate stuff” TSR. When it had quit being the Gygax and friends show (not an insult at all) and became a hive of creativity, often brilliant. That was all in that atmosphere you are saying was corporate TSR. And bankruptcy doesn’t happen overnight. The difficulties of TSR financially started before Gygax left, Unearthed Arcana was a band aid on the company. That book deal with Random House was a life saver to keep the company afloat and also a curse. A moneky’s paw.
So I’m not sure what period you’re talking about. Maybe, MAYBE, around the time they did the 3rd printing of the White Box? Dunno.
Jester David
Hero
Well, you are literally asking for something for nothing...
Nope.
Because by playing the game you are advertising the game and encouraging others to play or buy the books. And you still need dice, which supports the industry.
There is a vast difference between having a PDF in hand and using a service like D&D Beyond or any VTT service that sells books (e.g. Fantasy Grounds or Roll20). While a PDF certainly has value, it is produced in a vastly different fashion than a service like D&D beyond or any VTT. Those businesses leveraging other's intellectual property in a new format that adds value deserve to be paid for that added value, as well as those who wrote the material in the first place.
The information age relies on this style of innovation. Simply because you the consumer still have to read in every case does not mean you are not gaining added value in how, where and when you can access the material when it's not in a physical book. And these services do far more than just that - dice rollers, character generators, custom power databases, and more.
So no - it's not paying for the material twice. It's paying for the services of people to provide the same material in additional formats, with added value and utility.
As for smaller publishers offering PDFs for free, bravo to them. It's added value for a customer, creates loyalty and inspires them to buy direct. Those creative people deserve to get paid too. Sure it makes some added work, but when you're already laying out a physical book in a studio like InDesign, its only a relative "few more clicks" to make a PDF. If it weren't relatively low cost for them to do, these small companies wouldn't be offering free PDFs with physical product purchases. At any rate, they see it as investment in their customer base and a way for more people to get access to their games. WotC doesn't have to offer discounts (free or otherwise) for PDFs as they already dominate the market. It's a channel-based business decision, plain and simple.
The information age relies on this style of innovation. Simply because you the consumer still have to read in every case does not mean you are not gaining added value in how, where and when you can access the material when it's not in a physical book. And these services do far more than just that - dice rollers, character generators, custom power databases, and more.
So no - it's not paying for the material twice. It's paying for the services of people to provide the same material in additional formats, with added value and utility.
As for smaller publishers offering PDFs for free, bravo to them. It's added value for a customer, creates loyalty and inspires them to buy direct. Those creative people deserve to get paid too. Sure it makes some added work, but when you're already laying out a physical book in a studio like InDesign, its only a relative "few more clicks" to make a PDF. If it weren't relatively low cost for them to do, these small companies wouldn't be offering free PDFs with physical product purchases. At any rate, they see it as investment in their customer base and a way for more people to get access to their games. WotC doesn't have to offer discounts (free or otherwise) for PDFs as they already dominate the market. It's a channel-based business decision, plain and simple.
eyeheartawk
#1 Enworld Jerk™
I don't know who's positions you are arguing against but they aren't mine. Nobody here is asking for free PDFs. It was pointed out other publishers give them out for free with a purchase, or at the very least make them available. Simply to point out the ease and ubiquity of their distribution and availability, making WOTC's position the clear outlier.
Though again, there is another logical issue in your argument with a strawman who somehow looks like me, but isn't me. Is it possible to condemn somebody as a hypocrite for existing within literally the only economic system that exists in the real world?
Not really important though, I will inform all my fellow strawmen of the sub-forums you feel it is appropriate they post in if they dare to criticize WOTC.
Parmandur
Book-Friend
Corporations as such are neither good nor bad: there are good corporations, and bad corporations. As it happens, TSR was a very bad one, and ironically enough Hasbro happens to be a highly ethical corporation...
Jester David
Hero
Exactly. Something (a PDF) for nothing (a price you paid for something else).
Yes, other companies give free PDFs.
But by that logic, since I get a toy free with my Happy Meal at McDonalds therefore I should get a free toy at every restaurant I go to.
Free PDFs are by no means an industry standard and
Really, $20-$30 PDFs are probably the standard. But that's the price point for publishers several orders of magnitude smaller than D&D.
Free PDFs tends to be found with small publishers whose products are best purchased from their online store or can respond to every email. Books you can't buy in a chain book store. Comparing the small, micro RPG found only online or hobby bookstores with D&D is applies and oranges. Heck, the scale is so different it's apple pie and oranges.
Expecting a free electronic copy of a D&D book with purchase is like expecting a free PDF of Order of the Pheonix when you buy that Harry Potter book.
But that's irrelevant because, as has been said elsewhere, even if WotC wanted to, it's almost six years to late to give free PDFs with purchase and no way to provide that now without upsetting the million people who already purchased the book.
Last edited:
eyeheartawk
#1 Enworld Jerk™
Parmandur
Book-Friend
Yup, quite sure:
Hasbro Named One of the 2020 World's Most Ethical Companies for the 9th Consecutive Year
Hasbro, Inc., a global play and entertainment company, has been recognized by Ethisphere, a global leader in defining and advancing the standards of e
www.businesswire.com
eyeheartawk
#1 Enworld Jerk™
Yup, quite sure:
Hasbro Named One of the 2020 World's Most Ethical Companies for the 9th Consecutive Year
Hasbro, Inc., a global play and entertainment company, has been recognized by Ethisphere, a global leader in defining and advancing the standards of ewww.businesswire.com
If a company can profit from squalid slave labor conditions in its factories and engage with premediation for a decade and a half to avoid paying taxes, I would hate to see the competition.
Thanks Businesswire (Subsidary of Berkshire Hathaway)!
Similar Threads
