D&D General Hey, are we all cool with having to buy the same book twice, or what?

[Jester David]

I mean, it feels more honest?

Nobody expects to be able to keep receiving magazines in the mail when their magazine subscription ends.

You tell people they're buying something they expect certain rights and privileges real ownership entails.

I buy stuff all the time that I don't get to keep.

Food. Drink. Clothes wear out. Books fall apart. Movie and music formats change.
Stuff is transitory and fleeting.

And again, I really wouldn't care about DDB at all if they would just let us have PDFs. Then I can download them, back them up locally and in the cloud and take my chances that I might lose access.

You pretty much can. You can save websites as PDFs. You just hit CTRL-P and print to PDF.

Or you can save the HTML file and effectively have access to the website. Or get a webscraper program to basically download the entire thing and save it.
Or download the files to the app on your tablet and use them life PDFs on that device.

Are you seriously arguing against people wanting to own electronic files because they won't stand up to some sort of armageddon scenario?

No. I'm arguing that worrying about "owning" digital files beyond the lifespan of the game is silly.

A thumb drive definetly seems safe. But so does having it as an optical disc:

D&D General - Hey, are we all cool with having to buy the same book twice, or what?

Oh sure but prowling forums shows me some people were still paying and using it for their 4e games and they lost their stuff. I get what you’re laying down but for some people it was a huge loss of years of material. True, though they did provide ample notice.

www.enworld.org

How many computers sold today still have those?
How many new MacBooks will your thumbdrive fit in?

Obsolescence comes, and it comes quickly.

 

[Mistwell]

Full Control has nothing to do with protection of the item in the context that I am talking about. You know this, you are just arguing for the sake of argument at this point.

No I am not, and if you think it has nothing to do with the context you're presenting then you should do better to clarify the context you're presenting because from where I am sitting it has everything to do with it.

If you lose access to the content because of an earthquake, whether it's because the city red-tapes your house and you're never allowed back in or because the earthquake bankrupts the service provider that had the content on their hard drives, the EFFECT of the earthquake on your access to the content was identical.

"Full Control" is an illusion. You don't control your content fully in either scenario.

I am starting to wonder if this is a feeling about control issue?

 

[Bravesteel25]

You tell people they're buying something they expect certain rights and privileges real ownership entails.

I think this is the crux of the issue.

The word "buy" doesn't mean you OWN something. Someone can buy a year's pass to the tube in London or the metro in New York. That doesn't mean they own the subway system.

 

[CleverNickName]

Are you seriously arguing against people wanting to own electronic files because they won't stand up to some sort of armageddon scenario?

I don't think anyone is arguing against people wanting to own electronic files.

However, plenty of people seem to be arguing against the notion that Wizards of the Coast needs to offer them. At the moment all of their graphs are up and to the right; I doubt they'll try to fix a system that clearly isn't broken.

 

[Guest 6801328]

How many computers sold today still have those?
How many new MacBooks will your thumbdrive fit in?

Obsolescence comes, and it comes quickly.

That's why I output all my PDFs in binary, and then copy it to 1/4" stainless steel plate by drilling holes.

I'm doing it chronologically, and I'm currently up to page 3 of the original D&D Next Playtest Packet.

 

[Lanefan]

I buy stuff all the time that I don't get to keep.

Food. Drink. Clothes wear out. Books fall apart.

Clothes and books might wear out, sure, but you still got to keep them for the duration.

Movie and music formats change.

And the cynic in me sometimes asks why, other than to make me buy yet more hardware and then either re-buy the music/movies or end up with product in all sorts of different formats. For example I have music here on vinyl LP, cassette tape, mini-disc, CD, and mp3.

The jump from analog (LP, cassette) to digital (all the others) is significant enough to be worthwhile. Most of my music - including that which I've written/made myself - is on mini-disc, a wonderful format that fell between the cracks; good luck finding a player these days!

For video, DVD is a perfectly good format; Blu-ray offers little if any improvement but it does force purchase of more hardware; and now pretty much nothing new is released on DVD.

Obsolescence comes, and it comes quickly.

The problem is that all too often it also appears to come intentionally.

Planned obsolescence is very much a thing.

 

[Bravesteel25]

Most of my music - including that which I've written/made myself - is on mini-disc, a wonderful format that fell between the cracks; good luck finding a player these days!

Off topic, but essentially all disc drives still have the smaller sized inset in the middle for the reading of mini-discs.

 

[Jester David]

Clothes and books might wear out, sure, but you still got to keep them for the duration.

Aside from paranoia/ cynicism, is there a reason to think we won't get DnDBeyond for the duration of 5e and longer?

We have one point of reference and WotC kept it going over twice the lifespan of the edition (2010 to 2020, a full 10 years, with 4e being actively supported from 2008 to 2012 or 4 years.) And they only retired it because Microsoft stopped supporting Silverlight.

Even if DnDBeyond only lasts as long, that still takes us to 2027. A fair length of time. And if it lasts the same length after 5e, if 5e is replaced in 2025—which feels far too soon with how things are going—we'll have DnDBeyond to 2033. Both pretty darn far in the future.

And the cynic in me sometimes asks why, other than to make me buy yet more hardware and then either re-buy the music/movies or end up with product in all sorts of different formats. For example I have music here on vinyl LP, cassette tape, mini-disc, CD, and mp3.

The jump from analog (LP, cassette) to digital (all the others) is significant enough to be worthwhile. Most of my music - including that which I've written/made myself - is on mini-disc, a wonderful format that fell between the cracks; good luck finding a player these days!

I have a Minidisc player.
More blank discs? Less so...

That's why I'm using my old iPod classic that I cracked open and installed a 250 gig mico-SSD into.

For video, DVD is a perfectly good format; Blu-ray offers little if any improvement but it does force purchase of more hardware; and now pretty much nothing new is released on DVD.

The problem is that all too often it also appears to come intentionally.

Planned obsolescence is very much a thing.

Yeah. I skipped Blu-Ray until I got my PS4, and will probably skip 4K until I upgrade my TV and buy a PS5 or 6.

I think that stuff is driven more my video games that TV/movies these days, with the 4k blu-rays just taking advantage of tech people have to play God of War in ultra-HD.

 

[Jester David]

Off topic, but essentially all disc drives still have the smaller sized inset in the middle for the reading of mini-discs.

Those are mini CDs. Different format from minidiscs.

 

[Parmandur]

For video, DVD is a perfectly good format; Blu-ray offers little if any improvement but it does force purchase of more hardware; and now pretty much nothing new is released on DVD.

I mean...Blu-Ray iis obviously superior, in terms of pixel definition and color fidelity. Similarly, 4K is a big improvement, finally catching up to analog color fidelity with all the advantages not digital.

8k is pointless, though.