Pathfinder 1E Hidden Magic Circle

[Tharkon]

This question is about Pathfinder but probably applies equally to D&D 3.5.

My party is planning to call a devil in the future, and we want to be as prepared as possible.

What I was wondering though, just in case the devil breaks the initial magic circle, could we place a second magic circle around somewhere as a trap.

Obviously the devil would notice a circle of silver, but what if we placed the circle a few inches below the floor boards.

So my real question is, does a magic circle have to be visible, or can it be hidden beneath the floor (essentially it is on a lower floor, it's just that floor is only a few inches high).
The floor boards aren't touching the circle so I don't think they interrupt the diagram unless the boards break and fall down.
And magic circle doesn't say it is stopped by a wooden barrier and extends out to 10 feet, probably 10 feet high as well.

 

[Nagol]

Two abjurations close to one another create visible "heat waves" so it'd probably be obvious something was going on.

I'd say the circle requires line of effect to the creature being affected so covering it with floorboard would effectively block its effect.

*edit* the visible distortion only happens if the two effects have been near each other for 24 hours so building it at the time of summoning wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Greenfield]

Who ever said it had to be drawn on the floor?

One of the more entertaining tricks I've seen on the show Supernatural was to paint the "Devil Trap" symbol on the ceiling. So very few people look up.

Alternately, scribe it on the floor, then cover it with dust or sand. At the appropriate moment use a Gust of Wind or some similar effect to clear the dust away, thus establishing Line of Effect.

 

[Tharkon]

Who ever said it had to be drawn on the floor?

One of the more entertaining tricks I've seen on the show Supernatural was to paint the "Devil Trap" symbol on the ceiling. So very few people look up.

Alternately, scribe it on the floor, then cover it with dust or sand. At the appropriate moment use a Gust of Wind or some similar effect to clear the dust away, thus establishing Line of Effect.

The Gust of Wind would blow away the circle itself as well, so that wouldn't work.

And I found another problem that is a bigger interference in my plan, shown in bold-face below.

When focused inward, the spell binds a non-good called creature (such as those called by the lesser planar binding, planar binding, and greater planar binding spells) for a maximum of 24 hours per caster level, provided that you cast the spell that calls the creature within 1 round of casting the magic circle.

I am not sure how you are expected to cast both dimensional anchor and magic circle one round before planar binding though. At least not if you are alone, which luckily we are not. Quickening works, but it seems weird to me that a spell has to be quickened in order to even work. Guess they expect you to not be alone when binding outsiders, probably safest anyway.

Thanks for pointing me to the abjuration heat waves thoug, Nagol, even though it doesn't apply here I totally forgot about that.

 

[Greenfield]

Actually, it depends on how the Circle is drawn.

Paint it on the floor or ceiling, and lay the silver or iron filings into the paint, so they stick. Or, if you have the time and resources, etch them into the stone, and/or set in rings of silver or iron as appropriate.

If you use loose silver/iron dust in the traditional fashion there's a very real chance that the dust will be disturbed by the creature walking into the Circle, so some kind or precaution to secure the spell against physical disturbance is needed in any case.

Odd note: My SRD (which I have some doubts about) lists the Circle's area as a 10 foot radius emanation (20 foot diameter), but says that you draw it as a three foot diameter circle around the creature or area to be warded. Probably a typo, or failure to update the whole text when they cut/paste from whatever source they used.

 

[Tharkon]

Components V, S, M/DF (a 3-ft.-diameter circle of powdered silver)

AND

The trapped creature can do nothing that disturbs the circle, directly or indirectly, but other creatures can.

So it has to be powdered silver, by RAW. But you don't have to worry about the trapped creature disturbing it. You might want to prevent your barbarian buddy from charging at it though.

And good catch about the diameters... this would suggest that the emanation exceeds the actual silver circle, which considering the primary effect of this spell is mobile is not that hard to imagine.

But an even further point of interest.. the silver is listed as a material component, not a focus component, meaning it is consumed upon casting.
And divine casters don't even need to supply the silver to begin with, since they can use their divine focus.
The same goes for sorcerers, or anyone else with the Eschew Materials feat since the circle has no listed price.

Is a circle of powdered silver that doesn't exist undisturbable or automatically disturbed?

EDIT: The 3.5 version requires both a Divine Focus and a Material component, but at the same time mentions that the material component needs only be supplied by arcane casters. It further specifies that 3-ft diameter circle is traced across the to be warded creature (as per the primary function of the spell). It also doesn't list a price and the diameters don't match either.