Hide in Plain Sight

[shilsen]

What sort of action is it to Hide in Plain Sight? As the Hide skill says, "Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action."

Since the Hide in Plain Sight ability removes the need for cover and concealment, can someone:

1) Make a full melee attack and then hide as a free action?

2) Make a single melee attack and hide as a move action (or as part of a move)?

 

[Hairfoot]

Hooray! The number one question asked on D&D forums the world over: how does HiPS work?

Not even "why do assassins have to be evil?" comes close to the amount of flame and acrimony this one can produce. Strap yourself in, Shilsen!

 

[gnfnrf]

Hooray! The number one question asked on D&D forums the world over: how does HiPS work?

Not even "why do assassins have to be evil?" comes close to the amount of flame and acrimony this one can produce. Strap yourself in, Shilsen!

And yet, other than this dire proclimation, there is no actual deluge. Only been half a day or so, I suppose.

So, I'll post my take, having run a game with a 3.0 Shadowdancer and since looked at the rules since, but not debated them to death.

Hiding is not a free action. It is a consequence of movement, and can also be done without moving as a move action. A shadowdancer can hide whenever they move to cover or within 10' of a shadow, or whenever they spend a move action to hide while in cover or within 10' of a shadow. (Note that it appears shadowdancers can hide while being observed at all times, regardless of illumination)

A shadowdancer who attacks reveals his hiding location. With a move action, he can rehide. Here's where it gets sticky. I believe we played that this rehide was at a -10 penalty, as a compromise between the -20 for sniping and the -0 because no penalty for using HiPS is specified.

The nasty thing for us was "What is a shadow? How big does it have to be?" Basically, no matter how liberally you play it, if you EVER say that there is no suitable shadow within 10', the player with have a counterargument. I know some people play it as "A 5' square with shadowy illumination" but that strikes me as a terrible idea, since low-light vision means that shadowy illumination is in different squares for different people.

But, I haven't seen this supposedly epic debate, so maybe I just said all of the standard silly things that people will pick apart with tweezers. But, that's half the fun (magic missile targets mirror images, too!)

--
gnfnrf

EDIT: timeframe

 

[shilsen]

Hooray! The number one question asked on D&D forums the world over: how does HiPS work?

Not even "why do assassins have to be evil?" comes close to the amount of flame and acrimony this one can produce. Strap yourself in, Shilsen!

I think the acrimony is more around the "Does darkvision negate the shadowdancer's HiPS ability?" question.

I did do a search and found some interesting, and fairly opposed positions.

 

[Sejs]

What sort of action is it to Hide in Plain Sight? As the Hide skill says, "Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action."

Since the Hide in Plain Sight ability removes the need for cover and concealment, can someone:

1) Make a full melee attack and then hide as a free action?

2) Make a single melee attack and hide as a move action (or as part of a move)?

#2. It doesn't take a seperate action, but it's still part of movement. It's sort of like drawing a weapon if you have a +1 BAB or higher. If you move, you can draw without taking up another action. If you don't want to move, drawing's a move equivalent action.

So a full attack + HiPS is out, but something like say Spring Attack + HiPS would be doable.

 

[Sejs]

I think the acrimony is more around the "Does darkvision negate the shadowdancer's HiPS ability?" question.

The answer there being no, it does not.

If the "but the shadows don't exist for me" argument were true, then no shadowdancer over 2nd level could hide in plain sight because their own 60' darkvision would prevent them from being within 10' of some form of shadow that their HiPS requires.

 

[taliesin15]

Just for argument's sake, why then can't one attack, then as part of their free 5 ft move, Hide In Plain Sight?

 

[Thanee]

2) You have to take an action, which allows you to move, in order to make the free Hide Check.

This here is the part, where the difficulties begin...

It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Artoomis]

Hooray! The number one question asked on D&D forums the world over: how does HiPS work?

Not even "why do assassins have to be evil?" comes close to the amount of flame and acrimony this one can produce. Strap yourself in, Shilsen!

Actually, "Can Monks take Improved Natural Attack?" has the record as the longest discussion ever on the rules forum.

 

[starwed]

I think the acrimony is more around the "Does darkvision negate the shadowdancer's HiPS ability?" question.

There's no RAW why not, since the existence of a shadow doesn't depend on your ability to see it. (And nothing in the rules indicates that you don't also see normally when using dark vision.) If that somehow offends your sensibilities, remember that its a supernatural ability.

Actually, "Can Monks take Improved Natural Attack?" has the record as the longest discussion ever on the rules forum.

So, can they?

...just kidding.