D&D 3E/3.5 Hide Skill (3.5), It's at least a move action!

[mikebr99]

Yeah, like how the FAQ "clarifies" that 3.5 weapon sizes were just a dream. If you take everything Skip comes out with as core rules, you'll find yourself playing a different game every month.

If you've got something constructive to say... or disagree with how the Sage has clarified how the Hide skill is supposed to work, then by all means post away.

Sage bashing belongs in some other forum.


Mike

 

[Nail]

It's nice to see a sage ruling that makes sense. This one's a good one.

 

[Abraxas]

The above states, in a vague way... that the hide skill is either used with movement, or as movement (Sniping).

People just seem to think that "ususally none" = free action.

Just to clarify something, as one of the people in the other camp on this.

The Action description for the Hide skill is very clear as written - usually used with movement or as movement. However, the way I have always read it (and the way I believe others who disagree with you have read it) is that the "usually" clause refers to the other actions described earlier in the text. I have never thought hiding was a free action. I have always treated it as one of those special actions that can be combined with other actions - in this case with attacking, charging and running - at a -20 penalty.

If the writers really meant for your interpretation there was no need to include attacking with charging and running and they could easily have used language similar to the "Draw a Weapon" action described later in the PHB to make things crystal clear.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, that's just a clarification. It was always like this in the RAW.

Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.

It takes no action by itself to hide, but that doesn't make it a free action. Otherwise they would have written "Action: Free".

The Hide check is usually (means in all cases, which are not explicitly ruled otherwise, aka sniping) made as part of movement (move action, charge, run). Therefore you are required to spend an action, which includes movement, to be able to hide, because you cannot hide in any other way, even though it doesn't cost any action to hide. Of course, you can spend a null move action, just to be able to hide, moving 0' (which is included in up to your base speed) that way.

Hiding after a range attack (sniping) does require to actually spend a move action w/o getting to move ("move-equivalent action"), this is normally not the case as you normally get the free hide, if you spend an action to move, but you cannot do that anymore, once you have attacked.

It's basically the same as with drawing a weapon during a move action (it's a slight difference, tho, since it only works as part of a move action, not with any other action, which allows movement, charging in particular), if you have +1 or better BAB. It's not an action by itself (or rather a free action in this case, which is only allowed, if you spend a move action to move), but that doesn't mean you can do it always, just when using a move action to move. It's also the same as with Tumble, you cannot tumble without spending an action to move, but if you do, tumbling comes for free, as it is no action by itself.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

That hiding while charging part is pretty fun, I wonder what situation would actually allow this (well w/o HiPS that is - altho HiPS (SD) needs a standard action, so isn't actually possible during charging, anyways), as you cannot hide, if you are being observed and charge requires a pretty free "line of sight".

I think the -20 when attacking part refers to the sniping rule, while charging and running both include movement and therefore would fall under the normal rules (with charging usually making it impossible (not just -20) to hide, anyways).

Bye
Thanee

 

[mikebr99]

That hiding while charging part is pretty fun, I wonder what situation would actually allow this (well w/o HiPS that is), as you cannot hide, if you are being observed and charge requires a pretty free "line of sight".

I think the -20 when attacking part refers to the sniping rule, while charging and running both include movement and therefore would fall under the normal rules (with charging usually making it impossible (not just -20) to hide, anyways).

Bye
Thanee

How about a Rogue (w/darkvision or low-light) charging a human guard, without any light source... at night.

Mike

 

[Thanee]

There's no need to hide, he can't see you anyways.

Bye
Thanee

 

[mikebr99]

Or an Orc horde, marching through the woods, towards an Elf village... gets wiped out by a fast moving wave of Shot on the Run, Rogue archers... that they never even saw.


Mike

 

[Thanee]

That's not charging.

But that might work for attacking, similar to the sniping rule.

Bye
Thanee

 

[mikebr99]

That's not charging.

But that might work for attacking, similar to the sniping rule.

Bye
Thanee

I know... I was just trying to 'paint a picture', Thannee...


Mike