Hide Skill?

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

A Spot check result of greater than 20 can generally let the character become aware of an invisible creature near the character (though the character can't actually see it).

So, if an invisible character wants to move about undetected, he still has to win an opposed MS/Listen check. His opponents CAN still make a spot check (basically a passive check) to see if they notice something odd (footprints, leaves moving, carpet ruffled, pebble kicked, etc).

So, a rogue who is good at Hidding/MS, is FAR BETTER OFF than the silly Wizard who casts invisibility. The rogue can H/MS an unlimited number of times per day while the wizard can only cast so many spells.

Hide/MS *IS* better! :->

Yes, I certainly agree that a rogue with fairly high ranks and/or bonuses to hide and move silently will be much better off than a wizard who is simply invisible. I was assuming that the discussion was regarding a rogue either way. Looking back, I see that this was not the point.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

I agree with the doc's sentiment.

This is the house rule IMC - you can spot the guy - within a 5ft square - and be able to target it - IF you can make the insane spot check.

The bad news - is that the character with improved invis gets to make their hide check anywhere, with a +20 bonus, provided they take the partial action to do so. (with invisibility - you show up immediately - so it is a moot point) I tell my players to think about the old Predator film to get them to visualize what their characters are trying to see. If the attacker does not

Even if somebody makes the spot check - the invisible character still gets total concealment for a 50% miss chance. However - the party rogue/wizard has a tendency to use a VERY well aimed fireball or lightning bolt - something that doesn't "miss" so easily - or better yet - something that illuminates the foe - such as glitterdust.

 

[Gromm]

Ahhh, ok.

But I would still allow a hide check while invisible to replace the default value of 20. That only makes sense to me.

I add the 20 to thier Hide roll.

Good luck finding a guy you couldn't normally see if hes not invisible. If he is invisible you'll never spot him.
Being invisible should be an advantage to anyone. If you are the predator standing there and people don't usually see you, imagine how hard it will be if you are actually trying to hide (ie using cover, keeping a low profile, etc).