The Amazing Dingo
First Post
Because once he moves from the shadows he looses his concealment and that (in my book) reveals him. The person on guard isn't only looking during his "initiative" (though no initiative was rolled) but through a round.
Hide & sneak attack situation needs help!
- Thread starter Dracuwulf
- Start date
angry monkey
First Post
I say a dingo ate your baby...
Where in the rulebook does it say that you are automatically seen if you lose your cover?
I thought you needed cover (or concelement) to start a hide check, but after that you didn't.
I agree with an earlier posting that you shouldn't try to outhink the rules. If there is bright light and it's a narrow corridor, just give someone a +20 to their spot check. A hide check shouldn't be negated by the dm's description of the area, it should be beaten by a spot check.
I mean, frankly, if you want to look at it that way, there's no way anyone with a 8 str and a sap is going to be able to hurt someone in full plate mail at all. I don't want to start a discussion on how a bag of sand could cause damage to someone in a suit of armor, what I'm saying is that it's better to let the game mechanics work themselves out instead of just disallowing actions.
Where in the rulebook does it say that you are automatically seen if you lose your cover?
I thought you needed cover (or concelement) to start a hide check, but after that you didn't.
I agree with an earlier posting that you shouldn't try to outhink the rules. If there is bright light and it's a narrow corridor, just give someone a +20 to their spot check. A hide check shouldn't be negated by the dm's description of the area, it should be beaten by a spot check.
I mean, frankly, if you want to look at it that way, there's no way anyone with a 8 str and a sap is going to be able to hurt someone in full plate mail at all. I don't want to start a discussion on how a bag of sand could cause damage to someone in a suit of armor, what I'm saying is that it's better to let the game mechanics work themselves out instead of just disallowing actions.
Aaron2
Explorer
angry monkey said:
My reading of the rules is that you move and then Hide. From SRD: "You can move up to one-half your normal speed and hide at no penalty." Since the hide check happens at the end of the move, you need concealment where you end up, not where you started. The rules AFAIKT don't actually talk about the exact point at which your hidden status is removed. It won't matter in this case (since there is a surprise round, but will matter if the orc charges out of the dark while combat is going on.
Aaron
angry monkey
First Post
Interresting interpretation of the rules. I always read that as you would be both hiding and moving at the same time. Makes more sense to me, since the faster you move, the higher the penalty...
Also, I've always thought this sentence from the SRD implied that you were moving when hiding:
Also, I've always thought this sentence from the SRD implied that you were moving when hiding:
kigmatzomat
Legend
IMO the only way to do this is with some form of magical bonus or special circumstance. I.E. the half-orc uses a robe of blending, which gives a circumstance bonus to blending into backgrounds or has a special gilly suit that looks *just* like the floor in question.
However if you have two people looking down a partially illuminated hallway, they will *not* miss an orc in normal garb who inches 20 feet through the well-lit section. Can he sneak up to the edge of the well-lit section? Yes, with a good hide roll in the shadowy zone.
Otherwise I would say the "classic" surprise someone from the shadows is some form of charge attack.
However if you have two people looking down a partially illuminated hallway, they will *not* miss an orc in normal garb who inches 20 feet through the well-lit section. Can he sneak up to the edge of the well-lit section? Yes, with a good hide roll in the shadowy zone.
Otherwise I would say the "classic" surprise someone from the shadows is some form of charge attack.
angry monkey
First Post
I should be a little careful here, so that I don't degrade the discussion away from the issue, but in regards to the original question, I don't think that having a single light source does much to negate shadows. If you think about it, turn off your lights and light a candle in your room, see the shadows? Now bring in four of your friends, and see how many more shadows you have.
So, assuming that the light source is in the middle of the group, there's plenty of shadows. If there is a light source at both ends of the group, then you get into the situation where you have a well lit hallway that would be hard (or impossible, depending on your interpretation of the rules) to sneak through.
As I said before, I'm more in favor of just putting a big modifier on the hide check (or a bonus on the spot checks) than saying "it can't be done."
Not that this is a fair example, but many action movies have characters that sneak past opponents in well lit hallways, some of them do crazy cool things like climb up the walls, and hide higher than people are likely to look, or duck down below where people look, etc.
I think it lends the game to better play if you just make rolls incredibly difficult instead of impossible. What if the characters do decide to play a game of bones, and the one person who is supposed to be keeping watch actively says they are facing the other way? I'd stab someone quick, if I were that half-orc.
So, assuming that the light source is in the middle of the group, there's plenty of shadows. If there is a light source at both ends of the group, then you get into the situation where you have a well lit hallway that would be hard (or impossible, depending on your interpretation of the rules) to sneak through.
As I said before, I'm more in favor of just putting a big modifier on the hide check (or a bonus on the spot checks) than saying "it can't be done."
Not that this is a fair example, but many action movies have characters that sneak past opponents in well lit hallways, some of them do crazy cool things like climb up the walls, and hide higher than people are likely to look, or duck down below where people look, etc.
I think it lends the game to better play if you just make rolls incredibly difficult instead of impossible. What if the characters do decide to play a game of bones, and the one person who is supposed to be keeping watch actively says they are facing the other way? I'd stab someone quick, if I were that half-orc.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
I'd just have the half-orc drink a potion of Blur.
Now he's got concealment, so he can hide, right?
-Hyp.
Now he's got concealment, so he can hide, right?
-Hyp.
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