Hide & sneak attack situation needs help!

[Dracuwulf]

OK, a party of 5 adventurers enters a long hallway in a dungeon. they are all human and carrying torches, so they see clearly for 20 feet, then "shadowy" extends from 20 to 40 feet, and beyond 40 is darkness. A half-orc assassin is 60 feet down the hallway. He sees the party. He wants to sneak attack the Cleric of Flowers at the center of the party. He declares that he is using the Hide skill to hide. The party stops, sits down, and starts roasting hotdogs. Frustrated, the half-orc sneaks down the hallway toward the party. Two of the party members are standing watch.

Now, what happens as the half-orc hits 40 feet away?

Is it possible for the half-orc to sneak all the way to the cleric without being detected and sneak attack her?

 

[JayDarkson]

First the Half-Orc needs to make a move silently and everybody in the party needs to make a listen check to hear the half-orc. Provided the Half-Orc succeeds, any members with Darkvision standing watch or looking in the direction of the half-orc should make spot checks once the half-orc gets into range.

As a common group tactic we usually stick any members with Darkvision at the front of the party just outside the torch light radius.

Sneaking into the group and attacking the cleric with a melee weapon is impossible at this point given the scenario. The Half-Orc has a better chance of performing a sneak attack with a range weapon. The only thing that would come into play here is if the cleric has cover from other members of the party.

Hope this helps.

 

[Li Shenron]

Note that in 3ed Hide is rather a way to get out of sight rather than to remain hidden.

I think that he can benefit from hiding (if the party fails the spot checks, obviously) as long as he is within darkness or shadowy area, once he enters the lit area around the party he's no longer hidden.

IMHO the best that the half-orc can get is to catch the party by surprise. This is not very much however because (1) the surprise round is not a full round, and (2) if he chooses to charge he gets a -20 on the hide check.

Two possible ways I could choose to handle this situation:

a) have the assassin move out of the dark slowly (until he's only in shadows), giving the party a new spot check; if they don't notice him, he can get as close as 20ft or something more, however enough to either partial-charge or sneak attack from range in the surprise round; if they notice him, he does the same but the ones who are not surprise also play the surprise round (roll initiative)

b) have the assassin try to charge straight into the party (somewhat the start of the charge is before the surprise round); same spot check once he's visible but -20 to hide

 

[Dracuwulf]

I'm a little confused here... how is a character with a melee weapon supposed to sneak attack the traditional way, without resorting to bluff? There is no way to sneak up on a party and stab one of them?

 

[Li Shenron]

I'm a little confused here... how is a character with a melee weapon supposed to sneak attack the traditional way, without resorting to bluff? There is no way to sneak up on a party and stab one of them?

Win initiative

Or get a surprise round, flank, catch the target in one of the many circumstances when the Dex bonus to AC is lost.

 

[The Amazing Dingo]

The problem to sneak up and stab at the cleric the traditional way is that, without any type of cover in the hallway, he has no place to hide. He has the shadows for now, but once those torches get into range, he has to have someplace to hide to get within melee range.

And I don't see how, if two people are standing on watch (likely one on either side of the hallway) he could manage a charging hide without anything to hide behind. If nothing, he would have to catch them off-guard and surprise them with his speed.

 

[mikebr99]

I'm a little confused here... how is a character with a melee weapon supposed to sneak attack the traditional way, without resorting to bluff? There is no way to sneak up on a party and stab one of them?

If there is some form of cover/concealment... all the way to the target, or the sneak attacker has HiPS, the SA away!

Mike

 

[Li Shenron]

Maybe if the target was alone, I could rule on the spot that the sneaker could try to wait until he turns the back, then roll Move Silently vs Listen to get closer with a single move before the surprise round; then go with the Spot check to see if the target misses the surprise round. The sneaker could otherwise choose to directly partial-charge instead of moving, but with -20 to Move Silently.

However this would be a special case of facing (there's no facing in combat, but no mention of out-of-combat situations either), and if there are more people around I wouldn't allow it.

 

[Aaron2]

I'm a little confused here... how is a character with a melee weapon supposed to sneak attack the traditional way, without resorting to bluff?

I'm not sure what you mean by the "traditional way". But, there is no way to melee sneak attack a character when no cover and no concealment and two guards standing watch without being seen.

As it is, the orc can sneak up to within 30 feet using the shadowy illumination. Then partial charge in the surprise round gaining one sneak attack. On the next round, he will get another full attack sneak attack on anyone whose initiative he beats (due to flat-footedness). Not bad, but I doubt he'll live long.

If the orc is seen or heard sneaking up to the party, there will be a suprise round with the orc and any of the humans who made their Listen or Spot checks acting. The orc might be able to partial charge someone and might even get his full-attack sneak attack if his initiative is high enough and someone missed their Listen/Spot.

Aaron

 

[Zipher]

I think you should always allow the chance for someone to sneak all the way up to the party. Even if there are more then 1 person(s) on watch.

The rationale is that the stealth player will need to make both Hide+MoveSilent checks, and ALL characters in the "ToBeAmbushed" party get to make both Spot+Listen checks.

Since each additional check gives another "detect" roll, more people making the "detection" checks will statistically make it more likely the Assassin is detected.

Of course based on circumstance, the DM would have to add/subtract bonuses to the above rolls...