hiding = invisible?

[Thanee]

So, the opponnet does not need to be flatfooted for the rogue to SA, ONLY unable to respond appropriately. A rogue stepping outof hiding and attacking the unsuspecting, hapless victim, is not giving the person a chance to respond. Me, I would rule that a hidden rogue gets the snak attack and is then visible. The -20 would apply when trying to rehide after the attack or when running away.

Yep, I agree with this, with the only exception, that I think, the -20 Hide for attacking and hiding/rehiding only applies in conjunction with the sniping rule. With a melee attack it's simply impossible to stay hidden or rehide after an attack.

If it was possible to do a full attack, I'd also only allow sneak attack on the first attack, similar to invisibility.

Bye
Thanee

 

[mikebr99]

Yep, I agree with this, with the only exception, that I think, the -20 Hide for attacking and hiding/rehiding only applies in conjunction with the sniping rule. With a melee attack it's simply impossible to stay hidden or rehide after an attack.


Bye
Thanee

Well Thannee, that's a valid house rule.


Mike

 

[Pielorinho]

What I'm getting from this is (well, besides a raging migraine) that there's no consensus on
1) whether a rogue can use the Hide skill during combat to effect a melee sneak attack,
2) If the rogue can do it at all, whether the rogue must take a -20 on the hide check in order to make the attack be a sneak attack, and
3) whether a rogue who doesn't care about remaining hidden after a snipe can use the hide skill without penalty to make a sneak attack.

Is there really a lack of consensus, or am I just having reading comprehension troubles?

I ask because my next character is gonna be a rogue/necromancer, who's gonna be wanting to sneak-attack from hiding if possible; her +12 hide skill may or may not help her do this.

Daniel

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

For those who support "Hiding in Combat":

Suppose a battle is raging in the center of a standard 20' by 20' room, with standard hallways leading away from it. The hallway leading to the south has a 90 degree bend in it 10 feet from the room.

There's an orc standing in the hallway, past the bend. On his turn, he shuffles around the bend and makes it to the center of the room, attacking one of the engaged warriors (moved his speed and attacked). Is that warrior denied his dexterity bonus against the attacking orc?

Assuming you say no...

Now, shorten the hallway by 5' (so now it's only 5' of hallway before the bend), and rerun the scenario. Is the warrior denied his Dex bonus?

Continue to move the bend in the hallway closer to the battle until the battle is taking place just in front of the bend in the hallway, such that the orc can reach the battle with only a 5' step.

At what point does the answer change?

 

[ThirdWizard]

What I find funny is charging while hidden. Everybody's so bent about the attacking and moving, that that poor charging line is being ignored. How exactly does one Charge 50 feet, attack, and remain hidden?

 

[Hypersmurf]

How exactly does one Charge 50 feet, attack, and remain hidden?

Very, very carefully.

-Hyp.

 

[ThirdWizard]

You can always count on Hype for the hard to answer questions.

 

[The Souljourner]

Patryn - it changes when the orc can attack from cover or concealment, thereby staying hidden until the attack occurs.

ThirdWizard - while charging..... ever seen a ninja movie, or ninja anime? They do it all the time. Sure, someone running through the shadows is pretty easy to see, but if you're really, really good, you can do it. it's -20... it's not like this is something you can do easily.

-The Souljourner

 

[Abraxas]

I had a long involved post about all this and just scrapped it.

Instead, I have a question - Do the Rules/FAQs/Errata/Anything actually say that a successful use of the hide skill denies a target its dex bonus, making it vulnerable to a sneak attacks?

 

[ThirdWizard]

To be fair, Hide never even explicitly says that they don't see you. In fact, it doesn't really give any in game effects at all. It's obvious what it does, but I find it humerous that I can't really find anywhere in the description something to the effect of "those who fail their opposed Spot checks are unaware of the character."