High Level Fighter Vs. High Level Barbarian

[Crothian]

The fighter pulls out his bow and shoots 5 times.

A fighter20 will have rapid shot at least, specialization in 1 or maybe 2 weapons (reach and another option), a tower shield, a normal shield, etc. etc. Many options. Many options the low-feat barb won't have. That's the fighter's schtick. Take away options, and it's over. (i.e. trade full attacks).

If the barbarian saw a bow on the fighter, he could easily sunder it as his first spring attack. That's assuming the fighter took feats to enhance his ranged fighting abilities. Same with the reach weapon, not all fighters have these abilities. Just because a fighter has the ability to take this, does not mean they do.

 

[Epametheus]

It is a fairly safe assumption that the barbarian will take the HULK SMASH approach to combat. Even a Spring Attack barbarian can do HULH SMASH pretty damn well.

It is up to the fighter to figure out how to survive this.

I like the back-and-forth that's been going on in this thread.

 

[two]

If the barbarian saw a bow on the fighter, he could easily sunder it as his first spring attack. That's assuming the fighter took feats to enhance his ranged fighting abilities. Same with the reach weapon, not all fighters have these abilities. Just because a fighter has the ability to take this, does not mean they do.

A fighter20 has so many feats it's pretty much impossible NOT to have a few nice tricks up your sleeve. How can a fighter20 NOT have a few ranged feats?

Really, the whole improved trip thing cries out "fighter feat-man" and can ruin a barbarian's day in a hurry. Ditto reach weapon. I mean, why not? Why limit yourself to sword-n-board? You can do it all, just grab another weapon outta your bag-o-weapons. Use a big bashing 2 handed if appropriate, or a bola, or a tower shield, or a spiked chain, or a longsword, or whatever. The fighter CAN have 3-4-5 very strong "specialized" combat options. The barb doesn't. That's the deal. You gotta let the fighter do his thing. Tie them together, trade full attacks -- that's doing the Barb thing.

 

[Crothian]

A fighter20 has so many feats it's pretty much impossible NOT to have a few nice tricks up your sleeve. How can a fighter20 NOT have a few ranged feats?

Actually, while a fighter does have a lot of feats, its easy to not go the ranged weapon route. All that this is doing is proving that if we build a fighter to beat a barbarian, and build a barbarian to beat a fighter; the fighter will win. It does not show us that the fighter is better though.

 

[Trainz]

Actually, while a fighter does have a lot of feats, its easy to not go the ranged weapon route. All that this is doing is proving that if we build a fighter to beat a barbarian, and build a barbarian to beat a fighter; the fighter will win. It does not show us that the fighter is better though.

Well actually, it's straight on topic ( High Level Fighter Vs. High Level Barbarian ). I think we all agree that in general, with all the nooks and crannies that make a gaming session, both classes are on par. But with the thread title in mind, the fighter probably wins.

That said, it's not really true. The outcome is very dependant on what the fighter's fighting style and the barb's fighting style are. A barb with spike chain and improved trip and combat reflexes will probably win... unless the fighter has a bow. But often fighters concentrate on melee...

...what I'm trying to say, I guess, is that there is no real answer, because the variables are too numerous (as someone already pointed out).

I still place my bet on the fighter though.

 

[green slime]

Actually, more important than class abilities, in a scenario such as this, is the ability of the player to utilize his character in the most efficient way.

 

[Thanee]

Tripping isn't exactly great against an opponent with higher strength (who can have the Improved Trip trick as well, since this feat also cries out "barbarian feat-man" ).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Gort]

On the subject of grappling raging barbarians: Fighters with wounding armour spikes. Every two hits makes your rage a round shorter!

 

[Darklone]

Barbarians tripping problem: Int prerequ. A barbarian with high Int usually lacks in Dex compared with a fighter... or the fighter has a higher con to make up for it (while still keeping the high Int).
And the barbarian needs the dex for the AC.

 

[Endur]

Part of the nature of the feat chains that are available is defining this discussion.

For instance, a barbarian only has enough feats to complete one or maybe two small feat chains.

A fighter, on the other hand, has as many as 11 extra feats (at level 20), so he can complete more feat chains, or a really large feat chain.

The Archery feat chain is the longest feat chain, and I think we all agree that a Barbarian doesn't have enough feats to complete this feat chain (including PHB + CW feats).

The Mounted Combat and Whirlwind feat chains are the next longest feat chains, and a Barbarian is unlikely to be able to complete either of these feat chains.

Weapon Focus, Improved Critical are practically a necessity for both Fighters and Barbarians.

Power Attack is necessary for melee fighters, especially under 3.5 DR rules.

Cleave, Great Cleave are also very nice melee feats.

For a Fighter, Weapon Specialization, Greater WF/WS are a necessity for your #1 weapon.