High Level Fighter Vs. High Level Barbarian
- Thread starter jarlaxlecq
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Darklone
Registered User
The games not, but this arena... and it's really difficult to use chars from different campaigns against each other.
And this fighter... do you really think he needs it
?
Since less guys agree with my experience,... how have the ACs and to hit bonuses and damage of barbarians and fighters been in your campaigns?
And this fighter... do you really think he needs it
? Since less guys agree with my experience,... how have the ACs and to hit bonuses and damage of barbarians and fighters been in your campaigns?
MerakSpielman
First Post
C'mon, somebody post a barbarian! We'll settle this once and for all. Optimize him however you like, under the core rules.
Unless everybody's in perfect agreement that the fighter will win... (taunt taunt)
Unless everybody's in perfect agreement that the fighter will win... (taunt taunt)
Calico_Jack73
First Post
Darklone said:The games not, but this arena... and it's really difficult to use chars from different campaigns against each other.
And this fighter... do you really think he needs it
Since less guys agree with my experience,... how have the ACs and to hit bonuses and damage of barbarians and fighters been in your campaigns?
Actually in every campaign I've played in it is the Barbarian that is the last man standing. Don't know how it happens but it happens. I was playing a Human Fighter/Master Samurai/Paladin (don't ask) in a long running campaign when 3.0 came out and our DM converted A Paladin in Hell and threw us into it. My character was certainly tough but the Barbarian always seemed to get through combat with the most kills and taking the least damage. I don't know, maybe the gods of the dice like Barbarians.
Trainz
Explorer
That's because I didn't list a single magical item that he has. This fighter build is based on a fighter who plays IMC...Crothian said:Oddly enough, the only fighter that has been poresented in this thread has neither.
But allowing a shopping spree isn't exactly realistic as few games seem to allow such freedom of choices of aquireing magical items.
...which had a ring of Freedom of Movement by 13th level.
So there.
Epametheus
First Post
If anything, grappling is probably in the fighter's favor, since the barbarian is drastically reducing his own damage output, and the fighter is a freaking idiot if he doesn't have armor spikes. Grappling evens the playing field in the fighter's favor, really.
I've played a grappling-based fighter before. Killing something through grappling takes forever. It can take a low level character 5 or so rounds to kill something with 40 HP in a grapple. Killing someone with 150-300 (depending on what level we're looking at) or so HP through grappling would take so bloody long that the barbarian's rage would die out. Mouseferatu's Wounding Armor Spikes would certianly speed up the process, though.
Disarm and Sunder: Remember, what the feats do is negate an AoO, give you +4 to the attack roll, and protect you from a counter-attack if you blow it. You can still attempt these attacks just fine without the feat. A barbarian can pull a hefty attack bonus lead over the fighter (especially if the figher is using expertise to protect himself from the barbarian, or is using power attack to take advantage of the barbarian's piss-poor AC), and as a barbarian should be able to do enough damage in 1 hit to shatter a medium or light weapon. Being vulnerable to disarm and sunder attacks is probably the single biggest reason for the fighter and barbarian to refrain from using the BAB-reducing feats on each other.
The rage of a high level barbarian is going to last close to 10 rounds, if not longer. He only needs about 2 of those to mow the fighter down.
Granted, the fighter only needs 3 or so to mow down the barbarian, if he does good damage.
Trainz's TWF invincible fighter would of course be much better than he should be, if the poor opponent isn't even allowed to notice that Mr. Invincible is going all-out defensive and react accordingly.
Incidentally, wealthy barbarians do have a solution for archery-based enemies that are trying to keep away and hide: Wings of Flying.
A barbarian vs. just about any other melee class is basically a no-contest in favor of the barbarian, while barbarian vs. fighter is gonna be dependent on how many hoops the fighter can jump through to find something that a barbarian simply can't deal with.
I've played a grappling-based fighter before. Killing something through grappling takes forever. It can take a low level character 5 or so rounds to kill something with 40 HP in a grapple. Killing someone with 150-300 (depending on what level we're looking at) or so HP through grappling would take so bloody long that the barbarian's rage would die out. Mouseferatu's Wounding Armor Spikes would certianly speed up the process, though.
Disarm and Sunder: Remember, what the feats do is negate an AoO, give you +4 to the attack roll, and protect you from a counter-attack if you blow it. You can still attempt these attacks just fine without the feat. A barbarian can pull a hefty attack bonus lead over the fighter (especially if the figher is using expertise to protect himself from the barbarian, or is using power attack to take advantage of the barbarian's piss-poor AC), and as a barbarian should be able to do enough damage in 1 hit to shatter a medium or light weapon. Being vulnerable to disarm and sunder attacks is probably the single biggest reason for the fighter and barbarian to refrain from using the BAB-reducing feats on each other.
The rage of a high level barbarian is going to last close to 10 rounds, if not longer. He only needs about 2 of those to mow the fighter down.
Granted, the fighter only needs 3 or so to mow down the barbarian, if he does good damage.
Trainz's TWF invincible fighter would of course be much better than he should be, if the poor opponent isn't even allowed to notice that Mr. Invincible is going all-out defensive and react accordingly.
Incidentally, wealthy barbarians do have a solution for archery-based enemies that are trying to keep away and hide: Wings of Flying.
A barbarian vs. just about any other melee class is basically a no-contest in favor of the barbarian, while barbarian vs. fighter is gonna be dependent on how many hoops the fighter can jump through to find something that a barbarian simply can't deal with.
Trainz
Explorer
I did change my mind in another post. I'll repeat: I decided to stick with fight defensively, thus only taking a -4 to hit for a +6 to defense. That -4 to hit won't really matter because, as you so eloquently put it, the barb has a piss poor defense. That should put the Barb where he belongs:Epametheus said:
One step behind the fighter in the fighting department.
Epametheus
First Post
It's all relative, honestly. A paladin could crush an evil fighter with holy smiting power (in 3.0E, anyways; with the Holy Sword nerf, high-level paladins probably can't take high-level fighters anymore), but against a neutral fighter (or, say, a dire bear) a paladin is just a warrior who rolled d10's for his HD and has a neat horse.
A barbarian facing down an opponent who can't match his HP and damage output should rightly splatter that opponent. On the flip-side, against something that can out-match the barbarian (such as, say, an elder dragon), the barbarian is going to die, and die horribly.
The fighter facing an elder dragon will die horribly too, but it'll at least take a while.
A barbarian facing down an opponent who can't match his HP and damage output should rightly splatter that opponent. On the flip-side, against something that can out-match the barbarian (such as, say, an elder dragon), the barbarian is going to die, and die horribly.
The fighter facing an elder dragon will die horribly too, but it'll at least take a while.
