High lvl "true name" spell!
- Thread starter Piratecat
- Start date
Benben
First Post
I actually find this a little reminiscent of Soul Names from Elfquest. I think the -4 Will Save, -8 SR would be balanced if you included a wrenching sense of betrayal whenever the true name is used to empower a power or spell, or whenever the true name is spoken aloud. This would let the player know that something terrible has happened to his or her character, without clueing in to exactly what.Piratecat said:
And this is going into my file for a later date, thank you PC!
I hate it!
I don't know, this strikes me as being a Very Bad Thing (whether used by the PCs or GM)! If I cast a Wish, and spent the XP, and wished that my enemy PERMANENTLY had -4 on all his saves and SR, and that I knew all his weaknesses and how to use them against him, I can't see any GM allowing it (despite any roleplaying possibilities for his NPCs). Especially if it worked at a distance...
Bad Karma, all the way around, as far as I'm concerned. I just don't like it... I seem to be alone in that, though!
I don't know, this strikes me as being a Very Bad Thing (whether used by the PCs or GM)! If I cast a Wish, and spent the XP, and wished that my enemy PERMANENTLY had -4 on all his saves and SR, and that I knew all his weaknesses and how to use them against him, I can't see any GM allowing it (despite any roleplaying possibilities for his NPCs). Especially if it worked at a distance...
Bad Karma, all the way around, as far as I'm concerned. I just don't like it... I seem to be alone in that, though!
Hmm. Steveroo raises a good idea - asking "if you wouldn't let Wish and 5000 XP do it, would you let Spell X do it?" makes a good benchmark.
If it involves affecting or gaining information from the mind of the victim, Mind Blank specifically won't let Wish and 5000 XP do it. Naked Psyche seems designed to do both, while being the same level as Wish and costing a mere 0 or 200 XP, and for a couple more PP ignores saves, SR or - are multiple augmentions allowed? - both.
(Whether Mind Blank should be 9th level rather than 8th level to foil Wish is, I suspect, a pursuable question).
Also, how does one counter Naked Psyche once it has been successfully cast (other than of course killing the caster before they can pass it on to others)? The effect is Instantaneous, and relies on unspecified "mental weaknesses". Can the victim change/improve their mind to remove these weaknesses? How is that done?
On the other hand, Mind Blank will still stop other mental effects, any penalty from Naked Psyche notwithstanding, and a -4 isn't that nasty for a 9th level spell (even if it is instantaneous and potentially irreversible).
On the third hand, if Naked Psyche can beat Mind Blank for 0 XP, presumably any other 9th level spell of similar power that specifically mentions it can too - and then we're back to "if Wish and 5000 XP can't do it..."
Mea culpa for my first post to EN World being so long-winded. G'day!
If it involves affecting or gaining information from the mind of the victim, Mind Blank specifically won't let Wish and 5000 XP do it. Naked Psyche seems designed to do both, while being the same level as Wish and costing a mere 0 or 200 XP, and for a couple more PP ignores saves, SR or - are multiple augmentions allowed? - both.
(Whether Mind Blank should be 9th level rather than 8th level to foil Wish is, I suspect, a pursuable question).
Also, how does one counter Naked Psyche once it has been successfully cast (other than of course killing the caster before they can pass it on to others)? The effect is Instantaneous, and relies on unspecified "mental weaknesses". Can the victim change/improve their mind to remove these weaknesses? How is that done?
On the other hand, Mind Blank will still stop other mental effects, any penalty from Naked Psyche notwithstanding, and a -4 isn't that nasty for a 9th level spell (even if it is instantaneous and potentially irreversible).
On the third hand, if Naked Psyche can beat Mind Blank for 0 XP, presumably any other 9th level spell of similar power that specifically mentions it can too - and then we're back to "if Wish and 5000 XP can't do it..."
Mea culpa for my first post to EN World being so long-winded. G'day!
WizarDru
Adventurer
Remember though, the even if Mind Blank was 9th level, it can be trumped by a 3rd level spell with a good roll, and much more likely can be stopped by it's 6th level big brother.
In the scope of 9th level spells, this really isn't that amazing. It's a 'set 'em up so you can knock 'em down' power, and the best way to defend against it is to send someone to kill the Psion while you stay far, far away from him. It's pretty interesting, really.
In the scope of 9th level spells, this really isn't that amazing. It's a 'set 'em up so you can knock 'em down' power, and the best way to defend against it is to send someone to kill the Psion while you stay far, far away from him. It's pretty interesting, really.
Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
Sabriel, good first post. 
In my opinion there's no design flaw with letting focused 9th level powers be more effective than a wish. Remember, wish's big advantage is flexibility*; it's the Swiss Army Knife of spells, because it can literally do anything. The balance for that is the big honking xp cost.
That being said, I'm wondering if Steveroo is overstating the spell's effectiveness. This causes an enemy to suffer -4 to his will save only (not all saves), and only against the psion who manifested the power. The other party members are out of luck. It also doesnt list the foe's weaknesses; it generalizes the concept of exploiting weaknesses by creating a will and SR penalty. Whether the guy was abused as a child or he has a soft spot in his evil heart for baby unicorns, this spell lets the psion take advantage of holes in his mental defenses. I never have to enumerate what those are unless I want to (which I probably will.)
I also really like the feel of this power. It's cool for a player to feel like they have neat insight into a foe's weaknesses, and it makes the foe really want to gun for that PC. This drives greater tension in the game, and that makes things more exciting. I think I'll emphasize this by borrowing BenBen's idea; even if they fail their will save, the subject knows that someone has him at a horrible disadvantage, and you can be sure that it's going to make him tremendously paranoid. I think of it a little bit like Aragorn threatening Sauron through the seeing stone, only anonymous.
Multiple augmentations are allowed, but you can never spend more pp than you have levels in the class. Thus, the PC in question can afford one +2pp augmentation right now, and can't afford another for about a year real time (another two levels.) He won't be able to do this quickly with no save OR resistance until 23rd level, and I have no problem with that at all. In one sense I'm lucky, though, because if it turns out to be a problem my players are really good about tweaking things on the fly.
I think this has ended up to be a good solid 9th lvl power, right in the middle of the pack. I'm sorry Steveroo doesn't like the feel, but I'm diggin' it.
* Note that we have house ruled wish and bend reality to not require an xp component when duplicating lower level spells, identical to miracle and putting wizards and clerics back on a more even keel.)
In my opinion there's no design flaw with letting focused 9th level powers be more effective than a wish. Remember, wish's big advantage is flexibility*; it's the Swiss Army Knife of spells, because it can literally do anything. The balance for that is the big honking xp cost.
That being said, I'm wondering if Steveroo is overstating the spell's effectiveness. This causes an enemy to suffer -4 to his will save only (not all saves), and only against the psion who manifested the power. The other party members are out of luck. It also doesnt list the foe's weaknesses; it generalizes the concept of exploiting weaknesses by creating a will and SR penalty. Whether the guy was abused as a child or he has a soft spot in his evil heart for baby unicorns, this spell lets the psion take advantage of holes in his mental defenses. I never have to enumerate what those are unless I want to (which I probably will.)
I also really like the feel of this power. It's cool for a player to feel like they have neat insight into a foe's weaknesses, and it makes the foe really want to gun for that PC. This drives greater tension in the game, and that makes things more exciting. I think I'll emphasize this by borrowing BenBen's idea; even if they fail their will save, the subject knows that someone has him at a horrible disadvantage, and you can be sure that it's going to make him tremendously paranoid. I think of it a little bit like Aragorn threatening Sauron through the seeing stone, only anonymous.
Multiple augmentations are allowed, but you can never spend more pp than you have levels in the class. Thus, the PC in question can afford one +2pp augmentation right now, and can't afford another for about a year real time (another two levels.) He won't be able to do this quickly with no save OR resistance until 23rd level, and I have no problem with that at all. In one sense I'm lucky, though, because if it turns out to be a problem my players are really good about tweaking things on the fly.
I think this has ended up to be a good solid 9th lvl power, right in the middle of the pack. I'm sorry Steveroo doesn't like the feel, but I'm diggin' it.
* Note that we have house ruled wish and bend reality to not require an xp component when duplicating lower level spells, identical to miracle and putting wizards and clerics back on a more even keel.)
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