D&D General Higher Level = Greater Complexity = Slower Play

[Anon Adderlan]

On the one hand leveling up is quite compelling. It gives a sense of growth and progression. It remains a fundamental feature of #FantasyHeartbreakers, and most remain about collecting stuff which can be used to collect even more stuff.

On the other hand leveling up adds complexity and slows down play. It's such a fundamental feature that instead of enabling higher level play #FantasyHeartbreakers simply break down until play becomes impractical. The longer it takes to resolve turns, the less time there is to engage in any other kind of play, which is exactly why theories and agendas were conceived to correct it. And if the challenges scale with level then any actual improvement is completely illusionary anyway.

Despite this being a fundamental aspect of these games I still find it comes as a surprise to many. Most do not anticipate these games become more complex over time, let alone play because of it. Yet I realize simpler games might not hold their attention for long. So maybe one feature of these games is that they reach the optimal level of complexity.

For me however these kinds of mechanics are not worth the squeeze, and one of the primary reasons I've dropped them. Yet without that feeling of growth and progression something is missing.

 

[payn]

There is a summit factor in games like this. Folks need to crawl, walk, run with the rules. The anticipation of reaching that next level, and thus next interesting game point, is very enticing. So much so, folks often skip the middle step of learning to walk before they run. Which is why higher level play often drags and comes apart because basic competency, and improved speed of play, is never proficiently achieved. YMMV.

 

[Stormonu]

And it's not just "higher level, bigger numbers". It becomes the breadth of options available to players. They're not just doing one thing amazingly well, now their doing thirteen different things, all at once.

 

[Yaarel]

Part of the solution for mages is.

Make spell points the default (refresh per short rest, point pool is level + 1, cost equals slot). At high levels, a pool of points dramatically simplifies the bloat of slots.

 

[Yaarel]

And it's not just "higher level, bigger numbers". It becomes the breadth of options available to players. They're not just doing one thing amazingly well, now their doing thirteen different things, all at once.

It is the sprawl and bloat of options that gets ungainly. In 5e the numbers dont get too big to be a problem in my experience.


Maybe designs should aim for 4 main options at low tier, roughly 13 main options at mid-high tier. Any other character improvement is a numerical boost to one of the options.

I suspect memory is a factor, where the brain easily remembers upto four items ... but one of the items can itself be upto four items.

Tiers might look something like:
4 main options = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1
7 main options = 4 + 1 + 1 + 1
10 main options = 4 + 4 + 1 + 1
13 main options = 4 + 4 + 4 + 1
16 main options = 4 + 4 + 4 + 4

Notice the main options group into four main themes, and each theme can have upto four main options.

This would be a rule of thumb.

 

[jayoungr]

What's more, (some) people complain if the game doesn't give them more options. Unfortunately, the sweet spot is probably different for various groups of players.

 

[prabe]

My experience is that as the PCs get more complex, so do the situations in which they find themselves. The GM will end up playing slower, because what they're doing is more complex, too--often vastly more complex than any single PC.

That said, I haven't felt the juice here wasn't worth the squeeze, at the tables I've run into and through Tier Four, but different people--different tables--will have different experiences and preferences.

 

[ezo]

Higher Level has nothing to do with it:

Greater Complexity = Slower Play in general.

As D&D has given more options, features, and powers to players for their characters, game play has gotten slower over the editions in many ways IMO.

 

[GrimCo]

Let's be honest. Only part of game that slows down at high level is combat.

How much it slows down, depends largely on players. If they have high level of system mastery, know their character abilities well, have solid game plan as a group and players are fully focused then slowdown is marginal.

One thing that speeds up this is if characters reach high level trough game. That gives time for player to know his characters abilities, for group to get their groove on and develop their "standard operating procedures". When you played your character in the same group for 40-50 or more sessions, you tend to know when and what to use, what your party members will use and when. You achieve unit cohesion.

If you hop right in at lv 15+, then sure, it slows down.

 

[Minigiant]

Option Overload

Scientists have mapped out how choice overload works in the brain, showing how our minds can back off from making a decision if the number of options gets too big...

Camerer estimates the perfect number of choices might be between 8 and 15, and says there's a lot of room for future research. At least we now know more about how the brain makes these calculations.

This research stretches almost 20 years – in 2000, scientists ran a famous jam study where shoppers were either faced with 24 samples or just 6 samples. Study participants were more likely to browse the choices with 24, but more likely to make a purchase with 6.

D&D loads you will options FAST

I've always pondered creating an RPG where your # of options never exceeds 10 or 12. Like there will be 2-4 base core actions and you get 10 slots. As lot can give you another option (like spells) or boost a option or passive aspect you already have.

1. +4 Weapon Damage
2. +2 Weapon Attacks
3. +2 Weapon Accuracy
4. Heavy Armor and Shield Master
5. Warrior Conditioning
6. Trip
7. Slow
8. Parry
9. +6 Athletics
10. Reliable (Athletics)

1. Wizardry Spell
2. Wizardry Spell
3. Wizardry Spell
4. Wizardry Spell
5. Wizardry Spell
6. Wizardry Spell
7. Wizardry Cantrip
8. Wizardry Spellbook
9. Wizardry Wand
10. Wizardry Reserve