Highly recommend Carrion Hill

[SoldierBlue]

I never read any of Mr. Salvatore's novels (a friend tried to get me into one when I was 14, and I couldn't make it through it - even at 14), but I do know that through his novels he put the Underdark into a bit of a straightjacket.

The cool thing about Carrion Hill is that the mention of the Darklands opened up the possibility of endless adventure, rather than simply providing roadsigns to an already well-mapped and well-understood (and frankly very dull) Underdark. Paizo would be well advised to always leave as much wiggle room within their products as possible, and not detail everything out.

Otherwise the result is those strange chaps who spend way too much time hanging around my local game store discussing their very complete knowledge of each and every corner of the Underdark. We need to retain a bit of, "There be dragons..." at the edge of the maps. All is not known - hence the reason for adventurers. If everything is known (I'm looking at you, Forgotten Realms), there is almost no reason for adventurers or adventuring...

Curious if Paizo would attempt a world-shaking event via their APs...a Greyhawk Wars-type of thing...hopefully it would be something you could take if you wanted, and drop if you didn't, for all the reasons already discussed...

 

[James Jacobs]

Curious if Paizo would attempt a world-shaking event via their APs...a Greyhawk Wars-type of thing...hopefully it would be something you could take if you wanted, and drop if you didn't, for all the reasons already discussed...

We're VERY unlikely to do any world-shaking events in Golarion anytime soon. I'm not really a fan of turning worlds upside down and changing the way things work. When we moved from 3.5 to the Pathfinder RPG rules, we didn't really have any in-game event to explain the change at all. We've put too much work into the world to break it, basically.

As for the concern about overdetailing the world... we're releasing a HUGE amount of material for Golarion. On average, between the Adventure Paths, Companions, Modules, and Chronicles lines, we're putting out an average of about 192 pages of content a month. That's 2,304 pages a year. Or just over two million words per year.

Yet even at that pace, there's a LOT of material we haven't yet covered in Golarion. And furthermore, one of our design philosophies is that for every secret or region we explore, we try to create two more for further expansion—the analogy of the logger who plants two trees for every one he cuts down is pretty accurate. Whenever we do gazetteers for regions, we try to leave some mysteries unsolved.

The links to the Darklands in Carrion Hill is a good example of keeping room for further expansion open—so is the fact that there's a lot of other areas in that town that could still harbor all sorts of locations.

 

[Steel_Wind]

And furthermore, one of our design philosophies is that for every secret or region we explore, we try to create two more for further expansion—the analogy of the logger who plants two trees for every one he cuts down is pretty accurate. Whenever we do gazetteers for regions, we try to leave some mysteries unsolved.

Very cool I like that analogy, I like it a lot.

 

[ruemere]

I never read any of Mr. Salvatore's novels (a friend tried to get me into one when I was 14, and I couldn't make it through it - even at 14), but I do know that through his novels he put the Underdark into a bit of a straightjacket. [...]

Why? Underdark is supposed to be vast, and elves of any kind, including drows, should be scarce.

My first real RPG was Warhammer and there was never a problem with Skavens taking over tunnels and sewers of Old World.
If anything, Moria mines, Silmarillion concept of evil dwelling among "mountain roots" and Lovecraft's "At the Mountain of Madness" would be more prominent influences.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Why? Underdark is supposed to be vast, and elves of any kind, including drows, should be scarce.

My first real RPG was Warhammer and there was never a problem with Skavens taking over tunnels and sewers of Old World.
If anything, Moria mines, Silmarillion concept of evil dwelling among "mountain roots" and Lovecraft's "At the Mountain of Madness" would be more prominent influences.

Regards,
Ruemere

Because while those three sources are awesome, they are single works and weren't written about Forgotten Realms, didn't call their mountain roots settings 'the Underdark', and weren't "sanctioned" by WotC.

Salvatore's Drizzt novels are numerous, setting specific for Forgotten Realms, and given the WotC stamp of approval.

 

[IronWolf]

Because while those three sources are awesome, they are single works and weren't written about Forgotten Realms, didn't call their mountain roots settings 'the Underdark', and weren't "sanctioned" by WotC.

Salvatore's Drizzt novels are numerous, setting specific for Forgotten Realms, and given the WotC stamp of approval.

But again, the Underdark is a vast place. Even with the large number of Salvatore novels that touch on it there is still much unexplored. There is plenty of room for other underground cities, races and lost caverns to explore.

I think it is a bit overkill to write off the entire Underdark as already done simply because a popular novel series features a Drow elf from there. Weeks of Drizzt's travel through the Underdark is frequently hand waved within the novels, helping show just how expansive the underground network is.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

But again, the Underdark is a vast place. Even with the large number of Salvatore novels that touch on it there is still much unexplored. There is plenty of room for other underground cities, races and lost caverns to explore.

I think it is a bit overkill to write off the entire Underdark as already done simply because a popular novel series features a Drow elf from there. Weeks of Drizzt's travel through the Underdark is frequently hand waved within the novels, helping show just how expansive the underground network is.

Oh, I agree completely! I was only giving my understanding of the reasons so many people think of the 'Drizzt Underdark' as the only Underdark, not my subscription to that line of thinking.

 

[ruemere]

Oh, I agree completely! I was only giving my understanding of the reasons so many people think of the 'Drizzt Underdark' as the only Underdark, not my subscription to that line of thinking.

I was just being nitpicky, that's all.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[IronWolf]

Oh, I agree completely! I was only giving my understanding of the reasons so many people think of the 'Drizzt Underdark' as the only Underdark, not my subscription to that line of thinking.

Ah! I get it. I can see why folks on the surface might think of it as the 'Drizzt Underdark' - I guess I jumped to defense of the FR Underdark too quickly!

 

[Steel_Wind]

But again, the Underdark is a vast place. Even with the large number of Salvatore novels that touch on it there is still much unexplored. There is plenty of room for other underground cities, races and lost caverns to explore.

FWIW, I can confirm that Wizards of the Coast's approvals process does not share this view.

When the topic of getting an officially licensed and approved D&D computer game incorporating any element of the Underdark in the Forgotten Realms was broached, I was strongly advised against it, because the "canon" of the Underdark as presented in the Salvatore novels is very complex and it would delay the approvals process by WotC greatly. If a Drizzt novel contradicts an idea, or even merely implies something otherwise, WotC would say "no."

This was one of the reasons we went with setting our FR licensed computer game in Cormyr, as a result.