Highly recommend Carrion Hill

[IronWolf]

FWIW, I can confirm that Wizards of the Coast's approvals process does not share this view.

When the topic of getting an officially licensed and approved D&D computer game incorporating any element of the Underdark in the Forgotten Realms was broached, I was strongly advised against it, because the "canon" of the Underdark as presented in the Salvatore novels is very complex and it would delay the approvals process by WotC greatly. If a Drizzt novel contradicts an idea, or even merely implies something otherwise, WotC would say "no."

How did we jump the tracks to the WotC approvals process?

The several posts in this dialog were in response to:

Whenever you get a series of gaming fiction novels that so utterly dominates an idea like the Underdark, it necessarily restricts the GM from playing with new ideas; it interferes with building his or her own "vision" of what their Underdark is all about.

From there some folks mentioned how they feel that isn't true enough to warrant such a generalized statement. While I am certain the WotC approvals process has much more stringent criteria on granting an official license, it has little bearing on the home GM running a campaign or portion of campaign into the Forgotten Realms Underdark.

 

[Steel_Wind]

How did we jump the tracks to the WotC approvals process?

Because we were talking about how much the Drizzt novels came to dominate the "official" view of the Underdark in the Frogotten Realms, and how the baggage that those novels accumulated over the course of time began to circumscribe the freedom of GMs to make their FR Underdark into what they wanted -- and not simply as that realm was depicted in the novels?

If you've never read a Drizzt novel, and your players haven't read one -- then maybe it has little or no effect?

If you have read a novel, or your players have, and the official FR Underdark materials are steeped and aligned with the increasingly large Salvatore "mythos" of Dizzt and the Drow? It becomes vastly more difficult to do this with the same degree of freedom.

The counter to this view was voiced as :"The Underdark is a big place, I can do whatever I want. Ignore all tht novel stuff"

It might be a Big Place, but Big Place or not, my point was that WotC still feels very constrained (and it's just as Big to them).

You might not feel constrained. That's fine. Many other DMs in the Forgotten Realms, however, did feel constrained -- just as WotC felt increasingly constrained. To some people, "canon" matters concerning these matters and they feel bound by it -- or their players do. (Note: That observation is not intended to be used in an approving or a pejorative manner. In no way is it implied to be a "canon respecter=good, canon ignorer=bad. It's intended to be a factual statement only)

The original point out of all of this is that, happily, almost NONE of this baggage is brought to the Darklands, which is all to the good and was the point of this increasingly tangential discussion.

That's how we got here

Sure is dark in here though -- and BIG, too!

 

[Crothian]

Carrion Hill is another one I got cheap. Reading it it presents a good mystery with dark over tones. I think I would play up the mystery and investigation part more and would be tempted to make more villains humans that were just off or insane and less monsters. That way when the real monsters at the climax combat are seen and dealt with it makes them see more monstrous.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Thanks for the kind words, everyone!

I picked up Carrion Hill at full price, at Hairy Tarantula here in Toronto.

Money well spent!

The atmosphere is great, the encounters are great. Fun to read and (so far) fun to play. I am playing a converted version, intertwined with other events in my campaign milieu, and the PCs have just gotten to the cavern with the ghoul encounter. I picked up a loop of crow noises and rain to play during the above-ground sections, and have Sounds of the Earth for deep water dripping down below.

My players are well creeped out already, and I couldn't be happier.

We're VERY unlikely to do any world-shaking events in Golarion anytime soon. I'm not really a fan of turning worlds upside down and changing the way things work.

Thank you.

I believe that to be a wise decision.


RC

 

[IronWolf]

The original point out of all of this is that, happily, almost NONE of this baggage is brought to the Darklands, which is all to the good and was the point of this increasingly tangential discussion.

That's how we got here

Sure is dark in here though -- and BIG, too!

Not sure I agree on the route of how we got here, but any event I do agree our discussion is increasingly tangential to the thread, so I'm willing to agree to disagree for the moment and move on.

 

[Eridanis]

Let's get the thread back on track, please. The FR Underdark discussion is interesting, so please fork it to another thread if you wish to continue.

I love the "cut one tree/plant two" analogy. It's good advice for DMs as well as for game designers.

 

[rich pett]

I never do spend enough time on these fine threads.

I'm pleased to see Carrion Hill haunting a few sessions and delighted some GMs are having fun with their players there, as ever that fine Mr Jacobs deserves much of the kudos for dragging Carrion Hill from the sinking mire of forgotten submissions, alas the Styes, one day she may return.

This was a fun adventure to write and I'd love to walk the streets here again; actually love may be too kind a word: walk its streets in joyful loathing may be a better way to put it. I do think Ustalav is a great place of wonderful horror, and I'm delighted I can upset some players in the Hill's rain drenched miserable rotting streets - huzzah!. I'd be more than delighted to return, although I'd also love to see what a sick and twisted character (like for example Mr Tim Hitchcock) would spawn here

Rich

 

[SoldierBlue]

Mr. Pett, two questions:

1) Did you have a chance to DM Carrion Hill?

2) If so, how did it play out for your players?

Again, kudos on a very satisfying module...

 

[rich pett]

What I generally do is run adventures for my own group, where I can experiment a lot more, and cherry-pick the best bits to go into written adventures. So with Carrion Hill, the adventure is very much based upon an adventure I ran quite some time ago where the PCs were beseiged in a city district and confined by a religous order until they solved the adventure, which of course involved a high CR creature and people dying copiously about them.

So the answer is yes and no. The adventure as ran did go well, and as we're all old friends its pretty easy to pick out what runs well, what doesn't, and as a consequence never sees a draft, and those bits that need more work.

It's interesting as it also shows that adventures generally can work across genres - so for example I'm just about to start playing Hotwar, and the oppressive nature of that glorious setting will doubtless emerge in the future in my own adventures, so expect some backstabbing and dubious politicans in due course

Rich

 

[ruemere]

HotWar?

Would that be too much to ask to share your experiences with us? Especially as to how the system works... I'm worried it does not allow to simulate character's freedom to act properly.

Regards,
Ruemere

PS. I've been toying with an idea to return to one of my old campaign ideas for Kult [1], and ColdCity/HotWar sounds like a nice background for a few twisted trips to London dark side. However, I remain undecided on the system to use (Kult, Savage Worlds or ColdCity/HotWar).

[1] To the uninitiated: Kult is about exploring and discovery. Unfortunately for the players (and many GMs), the process is incredibly disturbing, and it's really easy for the game to deviate into cheap torture porn [2]. So, unless you are reasonably sure of your sanity and ability to deal with mature stuff, do not try to find more about this particular game. And if you do, well, you were warned.

[2] For the record: I abhor this particular genre.