Hijacked Thread in need of closure.

[Sulimo]

I'd like to see it replaced with the holy warrior class from Book of the Righteous. Then again, I'd like to see that holy warrior class expanded for evil gods as well.

What, you mean it doesnt? I thought it would've covered the whole pantheon? or doesnt the BotR have any evil gods?

But yeah, I would replace the Paladin with a system for Holy Warriors of every colour.

 

[Lela]

I think they should put the Blackguard, Paladin, and Holy Liberator on the same footing.

Either all of them are prestige classes, or all of them core classes.

This is where I chime in. It's the only unfairness I see.

But, on the other side, when I posted a similar question a while back, someone (sorry I can't remember who) mentioned that the Paladin being a core class helped underline one of the major differences between good and evil.

Good will accept you with only the proof of your heart. Evil will demand much, much more.

That, of course, doesn't explain the Holy Liberator. But I usually think of that more as an afterthought. It's hard to picture a Chaotic god/dess having a spicific group of warriors with the same powers. Even if they don't actually work together all that often.

 

[CCamfield]

It's hard to picture a Chaotic god/dess having a spicific group of warriors with the same powers. Even if they don't actually work together all that often.

Well... maybe think of the Law/Chaos conflicts (w. champions) in Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion books? Although I believe they are generally working for a particular lawful or chaotic deity, ultimately they are serving one side of the Cosmic Balance between Law and Chaos.

I'd like to see Champion of Law and Champion of Chaos classes or character concepts. Oh, and while we're at it, Champion of the Cosmic Balance too. I don't think these concepts would necessarily belong in a standard D&D world, but the appropriate setting could be quite cool.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Um...eliminate the paladin as a core class?



No.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Paladings give LG gods their champions their own Core class. I don't think this is really fair, I see no need for such a specific core class.

You're coming at it backwards.

The Paladin gives us players who've read too much medieval romance a class that fits our bold, heroic notions.

So, as to the idea of removing the Paladin as a core class, I say thee "Nay!"

 

[Alhandra]

Paladings give LG gods their champions their own Core class. I don't think this is really fair, I see no need for such a specific core class.

FAIR?!

What the hell does "fair" have to do with it?!

Hello, people - we're talking about HEROIC fantasy here - you know, the heroic ideal, and epic story-telling?

The concept of a hero who lays his life on the line for the betterment of all good people, gritting his teeth in the face of Vile Evil is traditional.

How PC has it gotten when people start to drag down a classic archetype just to satisfy some presumed inequity or to try and prop up the other alignments when there's no justification?

"Oh, there's no Chaotic Neutral Champion class!
This must be rectified, or else Paladins shouldn't exist!"

LG is a unique alignment.
Unlike any other.

The concept of self-sacrifice is fairly unknown to ANY other alignment. I know if I told Devis to risk his life to save Lidda, he'd probably ask "What's in it for me?" before jumping to.

THAT is why there's a Paladin class in 3E.
Because 3E is built on the heroic fantasy ideal.
NOT on 21st-Century PC platitudes of "making everybody equal".

Have fun.

Be good.

 

[jgbrowning]

3E paladins are kinda silly...

all a paladin is is a holy warrior who must be LG. But his GOD doesnt have to be LG. odd huh? why the hell would Pelor care if his paladins ocassionally broke the law to promote good? Why would Wee Jas care if his paladins ocassionally did evil to promote lawfulness?

answer: they wouldn't. they wouldn't punish the paladin by taking away his abilities.

the paladin, as written, is silly. it doesn't take into acount the basic nature of the 3E changes concerning worship of gods and getting power from them. it should have gone to just being a champion of any particular god, and the pally's alignment would have had to exactly match their gods.

only reason it didnt was because people like the idea of the paladin as presented in 1E and 2E. well, to those people i say this....

how would opening up the class to other alignments prevent you from playing a LG paladin in shiny armor just like you want to?

joe b.

 

[Alhandra]

But, on the other side, when I posted a similar question a while back, someone (sorry I can't remember who) mentioned that the Paladin being a core class helped underline one of the major differences between good and evil.

Good will accept you with only the proof of your heart. Evil will demand much, much more.

This person who said such is wise beyond his years.

I'll chime in with one more difference between good and evil.

Good bathes.

 

[jgbrowning]

The concept of self-sacrifice is fairly unknown to ANY other alignment. I know if I told Devis to risk his life to save Lidda, he'd probably ask "What's in it for me?" before jumping to.

i have to agree with you here. the best part of LG people is when they sacrafice themselves to save me.

joe b.

 

[Alhandra]

Re: 3E paladins are kinda silly...

well, to those people i say this....

how would opening up the class to other alignments prevent you from playing a LG paladin in shiny armor just like you want to?

You don't Get It.

Self-sacrifice is the hallmark of a Paladin.
This is where our power stems from - the willingness to lay our lives on the line for what is Good and what is Right.

Thru this unique dedication, we glean the power to look Death in the eye and be unfazed, leaving our hearts and minds free to defend the weak and innocent.

Tell me any other alignment that has these traits, and I will not have a problem with them having a Paladin class.