Hijacked Thread in need of closure.

[Alhandra]

i have to agree with you here. the best part of LG people is when they sacrafice themselves to save me.

Peers long and deep into joe b's soul, bringing the reality of his inner soul to her knowledge.

"Hmmm.... I wouldn't be so sure about LG people willing to sacrifice themselves for the likes of YOU, my 'silly' friend.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Re: 3E paladins are kinda silly...

how would opening up the class to other alignments prevent you from playing a LG paladin in shiny armor just like you want to?

It wouldn't, but it would haunt me for the rest of my days to hear people referring to their "Chaotic Good Paladin" or even worse, their "Lawful Neutral Paladin."

Paladins are paragons of virtue specifically, a Western, Christian/Aristotlean concept of virtue. These are definitively Lawful Good concepts.

So, make your Chaotic Good paragon core class and your Neutral Evil paragon core class, but give them each a descriptive and appropriate name. 'Cause "Paladin" is taken. It, by definition and usage, applies to a narrow set of concepts of the virtuous warrior.

 

[jgbrowning]

"Main Entry: pal·a·din
Pronunciation: 'pa-l&-d&n
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Italian paladino, from Medieval Latin palatinus courtier, from Late Latin, imperial official -- more at PALATINE
Date: 1592
1 : a trusted military leader (as for a medieval prince)
2 : a leading champion of a cause"



Hrm.. i dont see "Good" in there anywhere..... however i do see "champion of a cause".


Causes can be good, evil, lawful, chaotic, or even neutral.

joe b.

 

[Theuderic]

Alhandra, you are my hero.

 

[Kalanyr]

With a couple of minor modifications to those statements ie Good/Right for things more appropriate to other alignments, I can say, pretty much every fanatic of every alignment will sacrifice himself/herself for whatever he/she believes. (Well maybe except neutrals of various flavours who believe in keeping themselves very much alive. Though even here you kinda have to make an exception for NG or one of the 2e Balance Driven neutrals).

I don't advocate throwing it open though, making 9 Prestige Classes is my idea and making them distinctly different, I was considering having the Lawful classes be more martial and the Chaotic ones more mystical, (Cleric BAB, and more mystical abilities.)

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

"Main Entry: pal·a·din
Pronunciation: 'pa-l&-d&n
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Italian paladino, from Medieval Latin palatinus courtier, from Late Latin, imperial official -- more at PALATINE
Date: 1592
1 : a trusted military leader (as for a medieval prince)
2 : a leading champion of a cause"

Hrm.. i dont see "Good" in there anywhere..... however i do see "champion of a cause".

Causes can be good, evil, lawful, chaotic, or even neutral.

I'm getting sick and tired of literalists.

"Definition" is less than 10% of what a word means.

So stop looking at the dictionary, pick any 10 reasonably literate people, and ask them to tell you what "paladin" means. If you come away with anything other than a Galahad-ish warrior or knight who epitomizes Lawful Good, I'll be shocked.

 

[Alhandra]

"Main Entry: pal·a·din
Pronunciation: 'pa-l&-d&n
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Italian paladino, from Medieval Latin palatinus courtier, from Late Latin, imperial official -- more at PALATINE
Date: 1592
1 : a trusted military leader (as for a medieval prince)
2 : a leading champion of a cause"



Hrm.. i dont see "Good" in there anywhere..... however i do see "champion of a cause".


Causes can be good, evil, lawful, chaotic, or even neutral.

joe b.

*Laughs uproariously at joe's Not Getting It. *

Since when does Webster's define role-playing concepts, or more to the point, 3E Dungeons and Dragons concepts?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

In Diomin every gawd, no matter alignment, had paladins of the appropriate alignment with appropriately shifted abilities (though IMHO I think an evil paladin with the most of the same abilites still makes sense) and blackguards simply represented paladins who had abandoned their original faith for another.

My only problem with this approach is role-playing oriented. It is very easy for a player to see how to play a strictly lawful good alignment and make it seem very unusual with respect to other lawful good aligned people. I would hope that any expansion of the paladin's role would include some very good role-playing advice.

Otherwise, I like the paladin and while I do think it is a little unfair that only LG deities get those services, it really doesn't seem to handicap anyone else that much.

 

[Alhandra]

Alhandra, you are my hero.

Well, of Course I am!

Now, if we can just convince those lunkheads over at Wot-cee Marketing that people LIKE to see Girls Kick Ass, maybe we'll see me included in some more side projects and the like.

In the name of Heironeous, haven't they looked at TV and movies lately?

Girls who Kick Ass are ALL the rage.

Especially good-looking Girls.

*blows kiss*

 

[Dragongirl]

I never said make evil paladins, I said scrap paladin as a core class. If your character wishes to be a champion of some god, who does not accept LG followers then they have no choice in the core books but to start out as a cleric, or some other class. Why should only those gods that allow LG followers get a core class? All gods have some cause or vision.

Go ahead and call LG holy warriors Paladins, but they shouldn't be core by themselves.