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Hirelings and XP?
- Thread starter Dristram
- Start date
i treat any combat oriented hireling as a henchman/cohort.
They get 1/2 XP from the battle.
Basically count them for an equal share. then give then half the xp, the remainder is divided up to the rest of the pc's.
This still allowed the npc to grow in levels, but not fast enough to overtake the pc's.
They get 1/2 XP from the battle.
Basically count them for an equal share. then give then half the xp, the remainder is divided up to the rest of the pc's.
This still allowed the npc to grow in levels, but not fast enough to overtake the pc's.
Tobold Hornblower
First Post
Hirelings get no experience.
You think that if a level 15 party hires 100 1st level warriors to travel along with their wagon then the players only get 1/104th of the experience from the ambush? That would really be wrong.
You think that if a level 15 party hires 100 1st level warriors to travel along with their wagon then the players only get 1/104th of the experience from the ambush? That would really be wrong.
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Dristram
First Post
Well, if those warriors actually partake in the battle, then I'd say yes. If they stood back as reserves, and were never called into action, then no.
But isn't this an extreme example?
How about 3 3th level characters hiring a guard for their wagon. And during the night, the party is attacked. If the guard fought in the battle, then shouldn't he gain experience? Otherwise how would he ever progress in levels? And if he gains XP, then it's got to come from somewhere.
But isn't this an extreme example?
How about 3 3th level characters hiring a guard for their wagon. And during the night, the party is attacked. If the guard fought in the battle, then shouldn't he gain experience? Otherwise how would he ever progress in levels? And if he gains XP, then it's got to come from somewhere.
Tobold Hornblower
First Post
That's not extreme. Maybe they need to transport a treasure. They hire several thousand warriors. Only 1sp each 
As for, "how would he ever progress in levels": The DM says, "This guys level 2 now." Don't DMs have better things to do than track experience for 1st level hireling?
As for your example, the guy probably didn't contribute much to the encounter. There's a good chance he'd cower behind the wagon or run. But if he stays awake to raise the alarm, keeps the mule from bolting, or pushes the wagon out of the mud, then he's well worth a silver a day. But he's not worth a share of experience.
A guy who comes into the dungeon and acts like a party member isn't a hireling. He's an ally. He gets experience and treasure. He'd be insulted at the idea of working for silver.
As for, "how would he ever progress in levels": The DM says, "This guys level 2 now." Don't DMs have better things to do than track experience for 1st level hireling?
As for your example, the guy probably didn't contribute much to the encounter. There's a good chance he'd cower behind the wagon or run. But if he stays awake to raise the alarm, keeps the mule from bolting, or pushes the wagon out of the mud, then he's well worth a silver a day. But he's not worth a share of experience.
A guy who comes into the dungeon and acts like a party member isn't a hireling. He's an ally. He gets experience and treasure. He'd be insulted at the idea of working for silver.
Dristram
First Post
Ah...that's the point. It actually lists Mercenaries (2sp/day BTWTobold Hornblower said:
) under hirelings. What do you hire mercenaries for besides fighting?I guess it boils down this this. What is the difference between a 1st level warrior who's a Cohort and one that's a Hireling??
That's where my delima has come from.
PS And I don't know what kind of money your characters have, but at 2sp/day, just 1,000 of them is 200gp/day, or roughly 5,600gp/month. That's no chump change
And a mercenary leader is 4 sp/day and a mercenary horseman is 6sp/day.
Doppleganger
First Post
I see no problem with house ruling that a mercenary or other combat-oriented Hireling gains 1/2 XP like a Cohort. Oh wait, that does open a can of worms. A PC Cleric gains XP for the encounter if all he does is help heal the Fighter right? So what about a Hireling apothecary that uses the Heal skill to stabilize wounded characters in the middle of combat, shouldn't he get at least a 1/2 share of the encounter too? What about the Hireling scout that uses his Wilderness Lore skill to help the party avoid a quicksand trap? Etc, etc.
Re: "I guess it boils down this this. What is the difference between a 1st level warrior who's a Cohort and one that's a Hireling??"
I use the info under Leadership on pg46 to help adjudicate this rules dilemna. Therein, the difference between Cohorts & Followers is described as being, amoungst other things, their class options. I think the difference between Cohorts & Followers parallels Cohorts & Hirelings very closely. Using the DMG Follower rule to guide you, you could imply that a Cohort can be of any class, while a Hireling is limited to the Commoner, Expert, or Warrior class. That doesn't really answer the heart of the question, but it does describe another potential difference.
To rationalize the DMG rule that keeps the mercenary Hireling from gaining any experience is more difficult. The main reason is probably just to keep the spotlight of the story focused on the rising PCs, and to allow them to keep some minor retainers around for flavor without having a major drag syphoning off a large fraction of experience from the core party.
You could rationalize that the Hireling 1st lvl Warrior is not a hero, and is destined to be a peon for the rest of his life no matter what he goes through, while a Cohort 1st lvl Warrior (which would be a rare class option) is more like an apprentice or friend bound for greater things if he survives to learn and grow from his experiences (and could conceivably advance to add a level of Fighter or Paladin). The Hireling 1st lvl Warrior merely follows orders, he's not learning from the results of any choices he made because he makes no decisions, he is a subservient employee.
To use a parallel, if a person went to school or work and was ordered (the same way a D&D Hireling operates) to do everything, such as, "Add these two numbers together, subtract this number, multiply these two numbers, add that number, now stop you are done." Would you be learning from this?
Another student or employee (given the same guidelines for behavior that a D&D Cohort has) might be asking questions, trying out examples, and thinking about his mistakes, pondering over what's going on here, etc. Therefore, he seems to be more capable of learning and growing.
I realize that's a stretch, but it helps rationalize the situation at least a little bit.
Re: "I guess it boils down this this. What is the difference between a 1st level warrior who's a Cohort and one that's a Hireling??"
I use the info under Leadership on pg46 to help adjudicate this rules dilemna. Therein, the difference between Cohorts & Followers is described as being, amoungst other things, their class options. I think the difference between Cohorts & Followers parallels Cohorts & Hirelings very closely. Using the DMG Follower rule to guide you, you could imply that a Cohort can be of any class, while a Hireling is limited to the Commoner, Expert, or Warrior class. That doesn't really answer the heart of the question, but it does describe another potential difference.
To rationalize the DMG rule that keeps the mercenary Hireling from gaining any experience is more difficult. The main reason is probably just to keep the spotlight of the story focused on the rising PCs, and to allow them to keep some minor retainers around for flavor without having a major drag syphoning off a large fraction of experience from the core party.
You could rationalize that the Hireling 1st lvl Warrior is not a hero, and is destined to be a peon for the rest of his life no matter what he goes through, while a Cohort 1st lvl Warrior (which would be a rare class option) is more like an apprentice or friend bound for greater things if he survives to learn and grow from his experiences (and could conceivably advance to add a level of Fighter or Paladin). The Hireling 1st lvl Warrior merely follows orders, he's not learning from the results of any choices he made because he makes no decisions, he is a subservient employee.
To use a parallel, if a person went to school or work and was ordered (the same way a D&D Hireling operates) to do everything, such as, "Add these two numbers together, subtract this number, multiply these two numbers, add that number, now stop you are done." Would you be learning from this?
Another student or employee (given the same guidelines for behavior that a D&D Cohort has) might be asking questions, trying out examples, and thinking about his mistakes, pondering over what's going on here, etc. Therefore, he seems to be more capable of learning and growing.
I realize that's a stretch, but it helps rationalize the situation at least a little bit.
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Destil
Explorer
The DMG comes with a sort of card that you can call a 900 number at wizards to recharge when you get low. I think mine has 9k left on it.Dristram said:
Putting an unlimited supply or at least some sort of annual unlimited subscription plan or something for the stuff is on the top of my wish list for the revised DMG.
(Seriously - that's just a factor that makes the combat easier, so lower the EL [and thus XP rewards] if it's a significant change in your mind, and level the person up when you think they should)
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Tobold Hornblower
First Post
Dristram said:
Like Doppleganger said, Hirelings are mostly Warriors and Experts. They aren't heros. They'll be quick to retreat if attacked. If you also hire a leader to drill them regularly, they could probably form a straight line and fire crossbows, or ready spears against a charge. But they're likely to break ranks and flee as soon as some start being killed.
A cohort or ally can be any class. He's dependable and will likely stick by your side, despite the danger. He's heroic. He'll do things other than duck for cover without being specifically instructed. So, a cohort or ally is just like any other party member.
