historical references for "points of light"?

[GlassJaw]

This thread rocks. I don't really have much to add since this isn't my area of expertise but thanks to all for contributing - I'm certainly learning a lot.

From the info so far, I guess my next question for those in the know would be - of these historical time periods, what would you change/alter/tweak/etc to make then D&D campaign-ready? Assume that staying 100% historically accurate isn't your priority, just using the historical reference as a starting point for your campaign background.

 

[Flobby]

Superstition has nothing to do with it -- being dirt-poor with no way to leave does, and it's pretty common, especially in much of sub-Saharan Africa and South America, among others. Huge areas of China are very sparsely settled, too -- hell, there are rural areas getting access to a *railroad* for the first time.

Actaully thats not what I meant. (I was kinda rushing when I wrote that, sorry...) I just meant that not everyone was "poor" before the 17th century, nor is everyone poor who does not have Western conviniences (sp?). Many of these places are/were self-sustainable (although possibly not so many these days). If anything, poverty as we see in Africa/S.A. today actually worsened during the colonial period and continues today.
...but I have the feeling I'm starting to move into politics here so I'll stop there.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Well, I've actually decided to try and work up a campaign for my 3.5 to 4E transition group that is set in something like the Medieval American Southwest.

Naturally, I'm making a lot of changes and adaptation just for my own fictifying purposes so I won't talk about those, but there are some inherent issues:

1.) How much do you want to add to DnD to make this work vs how much do you want to add DnD to the setting? What about DnD technology assumptions?

2.) How much do you want to model a 'rendering' economy? That is one in which looting changes from "Ooo, I'm stealing his hoard of magic armor" to "Awesome I get to make him into my magic armor"

3.) How do you want to embiggen/fantasize the PoL situation?


And here are my answers:

1.) Right now DnD is on the outside moving in. The DnD culture is currently setting up tradeposts inside this culture. The basic premise is a twist on European colonization where a more or less coherent community was exiled from their lands and sailed to a Hispanola analogue. They have more resources to start settlement, but will get far less support and interference from the homeland. This lets players start with the familiar and let's me leave lots of questions open.

The starting with more but getting less dynamic will also let me deal with some colonization issues without letting them become imperialism issues.

I don't yet know what I'm doing about the technology. My temptation is to try rewriting the medieval Southwest with a lot of Old World medieval technology just because that would be a huge speculative challenge, but I also fear it will rob the setting of the unique flavor that flint provides.

2.) Lord, I really want to, but I think I'm going to take this in baby steps. It's a massive undertaking, and I think I want to introduce to the players slowly. See how they react. I am heavilly reducing the reliance on magic items from the get go.

3.) Right, first of all. Much bigger. The geography is getting a huge fantasy boost. The Rio Grande is now the Rio Gigante. Some Rivers are now filled with souls rather than water. Some hills are now not simply strewn with fossils but petrified gods. Some hills are petrified gods. So on and so forth.


I am heavilly PoLing the PoL situation.

I think the basic PoL question when building the setting is:

Is PoL a crisis or a strategy? That is did people create a PoL situation as an adaptation or are they being forced to adapt to a PoL situation?

Now in the Southwest PoL was a strategy. Indeed the most sustainable local cultures really invest in it and spread themselves even on a local level across a number of small cultivated points that use very diverse strategies to maintain production in an incredibly dynamic environment.

I'm sticking with that but I'm saying that whereas in my Southwest the environment is way less hostile in terms of metereology that the enivironment is far more hostile in terms of fauna.

Magic means that agriculture is more dependable and pastoralism more efficient, but it also means that evolve and compete along several different and novel dynamics. Cultures have to defend themselves against far more vigorous competition (and exploitation 'Hello Dragons!') than they do in real life.

 

[TerraDave]

Its funny, I happened to have the good fortune to be in Dubrovnik last week (formerly known as Ragusa).

The whole thing about the city is that it has this well preserved walls and fortresses that surround it. And these were key. Every day there was a whole elaborate routine to make sure nobody tried to sneak in and attack the city, and if they did, they would be trapped (double gates on each side) and get the old burning oil. And they city was attacked a number of times.

And this was not just happening in say the “Dark Ages”, this was the case until the 1600 or 1700s. And this wasn’t a backwater, it was a major city. (not as major as say Venice, but major).

Some implications for a campaign:

-Political fragmentation: small city states and kingdoms, or larger entities where most power is held by vassals, and by their vassals. These are your points of light, but also darkness…not all will be nice, and they will fight, spreading the darkness.

-Might is right: in the end, to stay in power you must resort to violence. This might be direct, or require using some special influence to get somebody to do it for you.

-Limits to human (and similar races) population growth: not essential, but plagues and disasters help make/maintain wilderness and cause discord. The presence of people eating monsters, evil cultists (who counter their goody-good counterparts), and high powered weaponry (character classes and their items and spell like abilities) could all contribute here.

-Settle only where its worth it: In this dangerous world, you just don’t build a village anywhere. You need fertile land, water, some kind of communications, and, crucially, a defensible position. The lowland by the river might look great, but if something can just sweep down from the hills, it may not be such a good place to settle.

-Trade and self sufficiency: Clearly much will have to be produced locally, but trade will be profitable enough for some to risk it. Coins can be used, as they where historically. (or think $100 bills: these are used mostly outside the US in the underground economies of many countries). Willingness to accept could just be based on the value of the mineral in them, a general perception of value, or even a relatively stable empire or city confederation that mints and accepts them. Any place peaceful enough, and with the right location, for trade to flourish, will become rich, hire their might, and then become powerful. Until they are wiped out.