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History, Mythology, Art and RPGs


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Jack7

First Post
Apparently a lot of these big horn sheep they find in this one part of Canada which have fallen off of cliffs, turned out to be dominant males. Similarly with some species of fish and birds; they go through this testosterone surge which makes them superdominant over their rivals, but then they expose themselves to predators. I've seen that myself with cichlids.

Yeah, I've known a few fellas that way. For some of em it didn't end up all that well. I always try and remind myself, "No matter what you've come through or what you've beaten, there's still a grave with your name on it out there."

That usually does the trick. Trouble is, I sometimes end up reminding myself of that after the fact.


This looks interesting too. Gonna give that a gander.

Muhlberger's World History: Some things I learned from the Chronicle of the Good Duke, 2: That old gang of mine
 

Galloglaich

First Post
This is a pretty good depiction of a realistic Medieval battle as you are likely to see.

In this clip (at about the half-way point) you can see the deployment of the Bohemian Hussite wagonberg at the battle of sudomer in this clip from 1950's Czech film about Jan Ziska (the guy with the eye patch and the mace in the film)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zapSxda7HY&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - JAN ZIZKA (1955) - Battle of Sudomer 1[/ame]

In this clip you can see the big fight, it's quite entertaining in a goofy way

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpaeyIbk8N8&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - JAN ZIZKA (1955) - Battle of Sudomer 2[/ame]

Wiki on the actual battle:

Battle of Sudoměř - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Despite being made by the Communists in the worst period of Communist rule, this film is accurate in many technical details, from the wagons themselves, the houfince (howizers), hook guns & hand-culverins, the pavise shields, the crossbows, the 'articulated club' style flegels (flails), even the knightly armor of the Germans is in the ballpark (ok ... very broadly, some looks more 14th Century... but it''s more accurate for the period than the kit in the recent US film Robin Hood was). The Hussite (Czech) army did also have women in their ranks as depicted.

Of course the actual fighting looks pretty corny, and needless to say I think many if not most of the Crusaders horses should be armored, and I'm not sure about the Hussites slings. I know they threw rocks from those wagons.

And of course I don't think the Crusaders were quite as utterly ineffectual as the film makes out, in the real battle the Hussites lost one of their commanders and took heavy casualties, but the Czechs did win the battle historically despite being heavily outnumbered.

Here is a statue of the real Jan Ziska (that I'm embarrassed to say I didn't see myself when I was in Prague because I was too lazy to walk any more and my feet hurt)

Zizka.jpg


And a contemporary drawing featuring Ziska (who was eventually made blind in both eyes) wielding a "dagger-mace" style war-hammer
Jan_%C5%BDi%C5%BEka_z_Kalicha.gif


Jan Žižka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Khairn

First Post
After watching those last 2 clips, all that needs to be said is "Location, location, location".

And as for the clip of the Polish HEMA group ... them boys are crazy!
 

Galloglaich

First Post
Yeah, I agree... I was in one of the first big nylon longsword tournaments in the US a few months ago and that was rough. People up the ante in tournaments "turned to 11"... Steel is pretty safe when you are just doing careful freeplay, I've done that but flat out in a tournament, that is pretty bold.

But there seems to be a lot of energy around that area for this kind of thing lately. I've heard some crazy stories about Polish and (especially) Russian re-enactor groups.

G.
 

Galloglaich

First Post
Speaking of HEMA and synthetic simulators, here is a video review of the new synthetic ones by Knight Shop in the UK, done by a HEMA group out of Britsol also in the UK. They are finally out and were tested successfully at the Dijon Tournament this month. As you can see they are firm enough for realistic sparring but flex in the thrust suitably to be pretty safe.

My understanding is they will be available in the US from places like Kult of Athena and Therion Arms for around $65 US.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2knwdZYXotY&feature=related]YouTube - Knights Shop Rawlings Synthetic Sparring Range Review[/ame]
 

Galloglaich

First Post
I've often mentioned the Henryk Seinkoweicz novels in this thread and (especially) the wonderful films made based on them, well now there is also a computer game (variant of Mount and Blade):

Mount & Blade: Ogniem i Mieczem (With Fire and Sword) Trailer | Mod Realms

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUbvxqRpebM&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Mount & Blade: Ogniem i Mieczem[/ame]

At last you can play a Cossack or a Winged Hussar... at least if you can speak Polish ;)

Hopefully they will come out with an English language version pretty soon.

G.
 

Galloglaich

First Post
The peasant staff of Paulus Hector Mair. This really emphasizes how Renaissance martial arts can still be practical in modern times... sticks are around all over the place sometimes in places you wouldn't expect (think of a pool cue)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohyb9Mc-4AM&feature=digest]YouTube - The Peasant Staff of Paulus Hector Mair[/ame]
 

Galloglaich

First Post
Many people ask me, what kind of fighting is portrayed in the fencing manuals of the Middle Ages? Were they sports, dueling, or real battlefield combat?

In the case of HEMA, the manuals still around we have are primarily designed for one or more of three purposes

1) judicial combat, which has certain artificial qualities (it's a one-on- one fight, with equal weapons etc.) but in most (though not all) cases it's a real fight to the death with lethal weapons*. If you were sentanced to face a judicial combat (a fairly rare occurance) you would be confined for 3 to 6 months, during which time you would be trained to fight. The trainers were experts in this martial art, sometimes Fencing Masters. In fact under certain circumstancs, some of them would rent their services, these people were called kemphe, it was considered a disreputable passtime but may have even been practiced at one time or another by some of the famous Masters. But the judicial combats in these manuals are a real, harsh, brutal martial art.

2) private duels many of the 16th - 17th Century manuals for rapier are designed for private dueling. This is also a lethal combat, which may have an overlay of some kind of etiquette, but was quite brutal and pragmatic form of fighting, these manuals have a rowdy swashbuckling vibe, fighting with rapier, dagger, cloaks, candlesticks, stools etc. and using every trick in the book. Later in the 18th Century a new more formal type of dueling arose around the use of the smallsword, and these 'Classical Fencing' manuals can be a bit more 'sportified', in fact leading to the modern olympic style sport- fencing we have today.

3) Sport combat In "German" (Central European) fencing, right along side the lethal fighting, there also existed a type of sport fencing called Schulfechten, named after the fechtchules or fencing schools, this goes all the way back to at least the 13th Century though it became more and more prevalent over time. This is not so much like the sport fencing we think of today, and has a much more working class realm than the Aristocratic salons of Classical fencing. It was more like 19th Century English prize fighting. (In fact a lot of people don't know that 19th Centruy English prize fighting typically included fencing matches with broadswords). Winning a fight usually involved cutting the scalp of your opponent. There were high stakes associated with this sport, because clubs whose members were recognized by the government as fencing Masters**, such as the famous brotherhoods like the Marxbruder and their rivals, the Federfechter, who were granted the right to certify soldiers as expert fencers who could recieve double pay (Dopplesoldner), a very lucrative franchise.

Brotherhood of St. Mark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Federfechter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some of the later 16th Century longsword manuals arguably focus on schulefechten, Joachim Meyer for example, but the system is closely linked to the earlier 14th-15th Century judicial combat systems of the Lichtenauer tradition.

In the East, the situattion is more complex. In China Martial Arts were suppressed in the 17th-18th Century, and then Colonialism of the 19th and early 20th century and the Cultural Revolution both wrought their havoc on all aspects of the surviving culture but especially martial arts (which was directly linked to many uprisings, for example the Boxer Rebellion). The shaolin temple was suppressed, for example, and some of it's members fled to the Peking Opera, which incorporated some of the techniques into their act, this is the legacy that Jackie Chan has. Most of what was left of "Tai-Chi" (Taji), which was originally a fencing system, was reduced to a form of exercize. Today some of the old original systems are being painstakingly reconstructed, both in China and here in the US. There is a network of people fighting with the Jian. They have some literary evidence to work from, I think there is at least one fencing manual survives.

In Japan, martial arts were suppressed by Meiji government in the late 19th century, and then even more so by the Americans after WW II, in both cases due to the association with bellicose Samurai culture, deemed incompatible with modern society. The old martial arts of Japan were turned into a sport, Kenjustu became Kendo, Jujitsu became Judo and etc. Even most of the katanas were taken away by US occupation soldiers in the late 40's and 1950's.

In other places like the Philippines and Malaysia, I think the tradition is a bit more intact though there has been many disruptions there as well.

Here is a partial list of the manuals which have been discovered so far from the various European traditions:

Martial arts manual - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Eastern martial arts, while benefiting from having a contiguous living tradition, went through that sportification process often forcibly imposed by internal or external government forces. Both sides of this fence are learning from each other lately though I think; most HEMA schools (my own small group included) are made up mostly of people with strong backgrounds in Eastern Martial arts of some kind, whereas many Eastern fencing schools are taking a cue from HEMA and updating their systems from available literary evidence from various sources which are increasingly being sought out. Bruce Lee himself famously incorporated elements of English boxing, Graeco-Roman wrestling, and Classical fencing into his syncretic fighting system.

There are some Eastern manuals, for example this 16th Century Korean manual:
Muyejebo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And this 18th Century one

muyedobotongji.jpg


Which RpG gamers shouild really like since it is one of the very few I know of which includes two-weapon fighting ;)

http://www.muye24ki.com/muye24ki/ssanggum_chongdo.jpg

And there are also some uninterrupted traditions have lived alongside sport versions of fencing for centuries, such as the Sikh Gatka and Filipino Arnis traditions, Zulu stick fighting and Nigerian wrestling (among others) in Africa, and quite a few others in South Asia and the Pacific.


*There are also a different type of judicial combat which uses some special weapons just for that purpose, like those dueling shields. But for the most part this is sword vs. sword and etc.

** To be recognized as a fencing Master you had to put out your shingle and face all-comers in fight. The early 15th Century Master Fiore Dei Liberi allegedly fought 5 successful duels with rival Masters, possibly for this reason

G.
 
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