History, Mythology, Art and RPGs

[Galloglaich]

Thats true... the drow world is pretty much Renaissance Italy with absolutely no conscience or friendless... with all the friendly Italian grandmother taken out of it. Like it's 100% Cesare Borgia. And underground of course. Kind of a scary thought.

I always did think Drow were one of the cleverest inventions of DnD. Do they have any other literary source or did DnD invent them?

G.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Side note: if you like reading about Machiavellian societies, you really should give CJ Cherryh's Foreigner books a read.

Essentially, they're 7'+ tall drow lookalikes with a Fusion age Feudal society who have had First Contact with some crashed Interstellar Age humans...

 

[Galloglaich]

Wasn't that called "avatar"? No wait fusion ok nevermind . Sounds interesting actually I'll throw that on my amazon queue.

I really enjoyed this wierd book recently. It's kind of hard to describe but it's set in the Renaissance, has magical elements, and ... it's a trip.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Drawing-Dark-Del-Rey-Impact/dp/0345430816]Amazon.com: The Drawing of the Dark (Del Rey Impact) (9780345430816): Tim Powers: Books[/ame]

G.

 

[tuxgeo]

Thats true... the drow world is pretty much Renaissance Italy with absolutely no conscience or friendless... with all the friendly Italian grandmother taken out of it. Like it's 100% Cesare Borgia. And underground of course. Kind of a scary thought.

I always did think Drow were one of the cleverest inventions of DnD. Do they have any other literary source or did DnD invent them?

G.

EGG famously said that he stole his demihuman races from the same place Professor Tolkien stole his own: Norse mythology.

I find it wacky that EGG coined the word "drow" to describe the evil, dark-skinned elves who live underground, when the Norse saga called them "dvergar," or sometimes "svartálfar." I'm thinking that this must be a nod to Tolkien, used to keep the "drow" separate from the "dwarves" -- because, while darkelves and dwarves were one and the same thing in Norse mythology, Tolkien described his dwarves as being Good-aligned, in contrast to the Evil-alignment of the Norse dvergar (svartálfar).

Wikipedia has more.

 

[Galloglaich]

@Doh! Thanks, I should have remembered the svartalfar .... I think I mentioned them in the post on Elves earlier in this thread.

To be honest though the svartalfar and dwarves of Norse mythology have a kind of different feel than DnD Drow don't you think? The Tolkein elves are a closer fit, Tolkein just kind of took away their randy rowdy pagan aspects and made them kind of chaste angelic beings. Dnd made them into just people with pointy ears. But the drow have a personality all their own... it's too bad the other mythical races in DnD aren't as well developed.


G.

 

[Galloglaich]

Ever wondered what a Medieval warship looked like?

This is a model of a 15th Century Hanseatic privateer (essentially a pirate ship) the Peter Von Danzig, apparently a pretty tough warship which wrought havoc against the English during the Anglo-Hanseatic war.

Peter von Danzig (ship) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I blundered across this when I was looking up Peter Von Danzig the 15th Century fencing master for an adventure I'm working on for the Codex. Check out the fighting (shooting?) platform on the front of the ship. The overall construction technique reminds me a bit of the Medieval loading crane which still exists in the town of Danzig (now called Gdansk)

We tend to think of people in the 1400's as kind of like cave men who lived in thatched huts, but they were a bit more sophisticated.

Danzig is a remarkably well preserved Renaissance town, check out the 16th Century town hall

http://www.talismancoins.com/catalog/Neptune_Statue_Gdansk.jpg

Similar to many of the other smaller (mostly Hanseatic) trading towns in the area, like

Torun,

and Riga all of which I hope to visit some day soon.


The career of the ships captain is pretty interesting too:

Paul Beneke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This guy is a great candidate for my "dilbert in the dungeon" list in the OP of this thread. Apparently a long lived fellow, this Paul Beneke shifted his career from town counselor to privateer and Captain of the Von Danzig. I bet he had an interesting life. He captured numerous English vessels recovering many priceless goods including at least one highly notable art-treasure.

Good fodder for campaign material perhaps, and an insight into the reality of Renaissance life in an area outside of Italy.

G.

 

[Matthew_]

I find it wacky that EGG coined the word "drow" to describe the evil, dark-skinned elves who live underground, when the Norse saga called them "dvergar," or sometimes "svartálfar." I'm thinking that this must be a nod to Tolkien, used to keep the "drow" separate from the "dwarves" -- because, while dark elves and dwarves were one and the same thing in Norse mythology, Tolkien described his dwarves as being Good-aligned, in contrast to the Evil-alignment of the Norse dvergar (svartálfar).

One possibility is that the D&D "drow" is related to "trow".

 

[El Mahdi]

...This is a model of a 15th Century Hanseatic privateer (essentially a pirate ship) the Peter Von Danzig, apparently a pretty tough warship which wrought havoc against the English during the Anglo-Hanseatic war. ...

So the world has been rocked by Danzig since the 1400's? ... Sweet!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Yeah...both the fencer for which it was renamed AND the namesake ship each had their own Dirty Black Summer...

 

[Galloglaich]

Ah well, it's a cool name but ... I think he rocked a lot harder when he was in his old band.

But as you know pirates used flags to scare their enemies, I wonder if the old Peter Von Danzig flew anything like this...

G.