History repeats itself

[Lizard]

Nor do I, frankly.

3.5, on the other hand....

I do. A lot of it involved the OGL.

"WOTC will just STEAL everyone's games and then PUBLISH THEM THEMSELVES!"

And, damn, was there a lot "It's turning into a video game!". Fighter feats, in particular, were a subject of much scorn. The recent release of the Diablo supplement for 2e fueled this, as it used talent trees. Further, the magic item naming system and design system of 3e were very similar to that of Diablo. (Adjective adjective adjective weaponname)

There's an old saying:"Glue is the secret to winning elections. Ever notice how the winner's bumper stickers stay on longer?".

Since 3e "won", people tend to forget the anti-3e arguments.

 

[Celebrim]

History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
- Mark Twain.​

Indeed.

 

[pawsplay]

Who else finds this amusing?

I remember when the first threads came out, mocking the same hysteria that surrounded 3.5 as does 4e. The same tired comparisons were put forward, the same misinformation was spread, the same strawmen were ritually sacrificed. It seems like only a couple of weeks ago, I was reading a thread just like this one.

Who else finds this amusing?

 

[Reynard]

I think it important to note that we have had lots of good discussions since the announcement, too, even between people that have diametrically opposed opinions of 4E or any other edition of D&D.

 

[helium3]

I remember when D&D 3E was first announced - and what happened on RPG-related online forums.

And I am incredibly amused how history repeats itself. Today we are seeing the same hysteria, the same rumors, the same denouncement of any changes (regardless of whether these changes have actually been confirmed), the same endless debates which are only based on hearsay instead of factual confirmation.

OK, some of the details have changed. But the way gamers are reacting to the edition change is exactly the same as it was eight years ago.

Who else finds this amusing?

So does this mean that most Folk will love 4E until about year two, at which point people will start drifting away and or denouncing how poorly designed it is?

 

[jeffh]

History won't repeat itself for us this time. If 4e is as big of a disappointment's to us as 3e was, we won't be house ruling and looking for variants... we'll be dropping D&D as our RPG of choice. We've had a lot of fun with D&D over the years we've been playing, but it looks like our run with the game may be history.

Why would that make you quit playing, as opposed to sticking with what you're using now?

 

[Nytmare]

From my point of view it goes back a lot farther than 3rd Ed. When I started it was wargamers complaining about D&D. Eventually the D&D players were complaining about Gamma World, and sci-fi RPGS, then it was about all the games that let you play as monsters, then all the modern-magic systems, and then all the LARPS. I remember when Magic was the noted death knell of the industry, which was then somehow followed with the three sided complaint that CCGs/Minis/RPGs were all being negatively affected by the influence of the other two.

Gamers fear change just like normal people.

 

[The Cardinal]

Amusing? Nope.

While I visited ENworld from the earliest days on, I didn't play D&D before the arrival of 3E. And - with D&D3.5 and C&C for nostalgia, and far better systems for everything else (plus the wonderful GURPS Dungeon Fantasy and Dungeon Fantasy 2) - I'm more and more likely to avoid D&D4E completely.

If someone would offer me a place in his campaign, I might play (using just the SRD and borrowed books), but I cannot imagine any reason to become a D&D4E DM *ever*.

 

[Zaruthustran]

And, damn, was there a lot "It's turning into a video game!". Fighter feats, in particular, were a subject of much scorn. The recent release of the Diablo* supplement for 2e fueled this, as it used talent trees. Further, the magic item naming system and design system of 3e were very similar to that of Diablo. (Adjective adjective adjective weaponname)

Yep. It was pretty bad. On the other hand, there was also a lot of optimism. 2E was so old and creaky that many people had abandoned the game altogether. 3E brought a lot of people back. That was one of the most recurring threads, "I'm coming back to D&D because of 3e." Third Edition had this sense of revitalization; it was exciting to see the game getting updated with a brand-new design.

I love nearly everything I've heard about 4E (and am increasingly disgusted by the bloat and annoyances of 3e), but I also realize that 4E is not riding that wave of excitement. I doubt 4E is going to bring anyone "back" to the game. Unlike 3E, the target market is not lapsed D&D players. Instead, the target market is people who have never tried D&D.

Since 3e "won", people tend to forget the anti-3e arguments.

The above has been quoted for truth.

-z

* First Diablo, now World of Warcraft. Damn you, Blizzard!

Just kidding. The magic items of Diablo are terrific, and WoW has some very cool design implementations (talent trees, quest log, ability timers).

 

[ThirdWizard]

I remember some amazing 3e hate mongering back in the day. It was partly because I was one of the ones hate mongering! I seem to recall some very intense discussions back then on ENWorld. So the hate was very much alive.