History repeats itself

[Lizard]

Haha, very good!

Erm at least I hope that is subtle sarcasm?!?

Too subtle, I'm thinking...

 

[Dragonbait]

Too subtle, I'm thinking...

No, no, I just think some of us have not taken our sarcasm pills yet.. It's still early.

 

[vagabundo]

History won't repeat itself for us this time. If 4e is as big of a disappointment's to us as 3e was, we won't be house ruling and looking for variants... we'll be dropping D&D as our RPG of choice. We've had a lot of fun with D&D over the years we've been playing, but it looks like our run with the game may be history.

I think you will not be alone, I would guess that a lot of people will not be pleased with the final product. I doubt it will be as, middle of the road, as 3e was. It may fracture the current 3e audience.

But I think 3e has reached the end of what it can achomplish for the majority of DnDers right now. Something new is needed and I am happy with the way 4e is going. I believe 3e will continue as a viable product for many or something new (3.75e) will come along.

 

[Celebrim]

And I am incredibly amused how history repeats itself.

Hmmm, you must not have gotten the same speach about history in college that I did.

I was told emphatically by the professor that history doesn't repeat itself. I was told that people believed history repeated itself because they tended to forget history, didn't know the details of history, and liked to tell much simpler narratives about things than the real ones because it made them feel good about themselves.

In any event, history is not repeating itself for me. I'm having a completely different experience of current and past events than you are having. It may very well be that for you, your experiences are repeating themselves. But that only shows that what you are calling history is very subjective.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I think you will not be alone, I would guess that a lot of people will not be pleased with the final product. I doubt it will be as, middle of the road, as 3e was. It may fracture the current 3e audience.

No more than 3E fractured the AD&D audience, if I'm any judge.

 

[Mallus]

No, no, I just think some of us have not taken our sarcasm pills yet.. It's still early.

My prescription ran out. I'll call in a refill at lunch...

 

[Lizard]

No more than 3E fractured the AD&D audience, if I'm any judge.

There is one major distinction -- the OGL.

After 2e ended, there was no new, professional, material for it. If you wanted Cool New Toys, you had to move to 3e, or some other system entirely. Most of the netbook sites dried up and died, as well.

With 3x, there can be a constant stream of new material, professionally done. 3x 'spinoffs' like True 20 and Spycraft will still be out there and supported. There was never any company which could earn money supporting 2e grognards, but if there's enough 3e players left, companies can and will cater to them, reducing the need to move to 4e. Thus, more of those 'on the fence' will stick with 3e that much longer.

 

[Rpgraccoon]

How did that quote again?

Patrician: "Oh, it appears that I have read my notes in the wrong order."
- Jingo by Terry Pratchett

lol so true.. my 2e group saw dnd going the way of magic the gathering and MMORPG's during 3e long ago.

Plus, those mini/war playing what are they called oh yeah grognards were forcing the game in the wrong direction.

My 2e group had imagination, knew game design, and story. We knew why 2e was crafted like it was. Some never liked the change some went with it after 3.5 as that was when it was acceptable to play. However, D&D has went down hill after Wotc got it's hands on it.

What was really fun about my 2e group was we would take stuff from 3e/2e/1e etc and design our own systems. I one DM even wrote a book of rules from em all and his own custom rules. oh the memories.

 

[Lizard]

Hmmm, you must not have gotten the same speach about history in college that I did.

I was told emphatically by the professor that history doesn't repeat itself. I was told that people believed history repeated itself because they tended to forget history, didn't know the details of history, and liked to tell much simpler narratives about things than the real ones because it made them feel good about themselves.

If your history teacher believed that, I'd wager he believed West Side Story and Romeo&Juliet were totally different plays...

HUMANITY doesn't change. Thus, neither does history. Only the costumes do.

But that's another thread...

I have seen this pattern not just in RPGs, but in many other media. You have the people who decide they hate it. You have the people who decide they love it and dedicate their lives to it. You have the people who just enjoy a good fight. Our capacity to latch onto things as abstract as games as a tool for defining our personal identities is astounding. (Well, better a game than a religion, a philosophy, or a nation, I suppose...)

 

[Jayouzts]

Its different for me

And I am incredibly amused how history repeats itself. Today we are seeing the same hysteria, the same rumors, the same denouncement of any changes (regardless of whether these changes have actually been confirmed), the same endless debates which are only based on hearsay instead of factual confirmation.
QUOTE]

In my case it is very different. I have played D&D since 1E, but I was eagerly awaiting 3E when it was announced. 2E had become stale and inflexible (level limits anyone?). 3E offered a chance to customize one's character as he wished.

Although 3.0/3.5 had flaws, it was easily the best version of D&D I ever played.

Five months before the release of 3E I was chomping at the bit to switch. Five months before the release of 4E I have heard nothing to make me think it is better than what I have got (either a houseruled 3.5 or some other system). In fact, there are many things that make me fear it will be worse. I am willing to review (not buy but review) the PH before passing judgement, but I am not optimistic.