D&D General Hit Point alternate to + CON mod?

[The Crimson Binome]

They can fix the other ability scores too (Strength, Intelligence) if/when they changed Constitution. There are ways to do so, fairly simple ways. PCs feel a penalty when they have low Dexterity (heavy armor or not), low Charisma, and low Wisdom (though it is to a lesser extent than the penalties of low Charisma and Dexterity).

I don't really follow. How does a player "feel" a penalty from having a low stat, generally speaking? If you make a lot of checks, and you often fail because of your low stat, then the player can "feel" that. Based on personal experience, though, it takes a lot before the impact is felt. My last character was a fighter with a Dex of 5, and it honestly didn't come up much. Sure, I was a little later in the initiative order and ate a few more fire spells than I would have with Dex 12, but it's not like anyone else was always going first or avoiding all the fire.

Do you just play up the narrative of being inferior, as though the numbers actually represented the spectrum of real world possibilities? Do you pretend that Wisdom 8 means you're oblivious, even though you're objectively pretty average by any quantifiable measure?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I don't really follow. How does a player "feel" a penalty from having a low stat, generally speaking? If you make a lot of checks, and you often fail because of your low stat, then the player can "feel" that. Based on personal experience, though, it takes a lot before the impact is felt. My last character was a fighter with a Dex of 5, and it honestly didn't come up much. Sure, I was a little later in the initiative order and ate a few more fire spells than I would have with Dex 12, but it's not like anyone else was always going first or avoiding all the fire.

Do you just play up the narrative of being inferior, as though the numbers actually represented the spectrum of real world possibilities? Do you pretend that Wisdom 8 means you're oblivious, even though you're objectively pretty average by any quantifiable measure?

Yes, I do roleplay my characters ability scores. As a DM I also make sure to regularly challenge a players strengths and weaknesses. For example, I have a Warlock character whose intelligence is 11. They are no scholar, and how I roleplay/rollplay them, this is made abundantly clear.
Edit: Remember that I mentioned Raistlin above. Like that. You roleplay your weaknesses and strengths.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Yes, I do roleplay my characters ability scores. As a DM I also make sure to regularly challenge a players strengths and weaknesses. For example, I have a Warlock character whose intelligence is 11. They are no scholar, and how I roleplay/rollplay them, this is made abundantly clear.
Edit: Remember that I mentioned Raistlin above. Like that. You roleplay your weaknesses and strengths.

I get that, but I you're taking it way out of proportion. Remember, if our perception of something is at odds with the objective reality of the situation, then our perspective is wrong.

The fact of the matter is that a Wisdom of 8 does not represent a level of obliviousness that anyone else would even notice. It represents someone who fails at a Wisdom-based task 10% more often than average. There is no task of Wisdom which the wisest sage could reliably perform, which the slightly-less-wise-than-average person can't also succeed at more often than not. The difference between 8 and 12 is so minimal that we can't even predict which one is likely to succeed, and which is likely to fail, in any given instance. It's negligible.

It's funny that you mention Raistlin, because the way he's portrayed is actually pretty consistent with a Con score in the 3-5 range... by the AD&D scale, where that actually meant something. According to my sources, his actual Constitution score was 10, and the portrayal was merely for effect in spite of the rules, rather than because of them.

 

[dave2008]

The fact of the matter is that a Wisdom of 8 does not represent a level of obliviousness that anyone else would even notice. It represents someone who fails at a Wisdom-based task 10% more often than average.

IMO, this the roll-playing mindset instead of the role-playing mindset. Which is fine, but not my preference. I find it perfectly acceptable for my players to role-play their ability scores, even if the game "mechanics" don't make much of a difference.

In fact, I think it is implied in the game structure itself. A badger may only have -4 on its intelligence vs a +0 for a commoner, but that is not all that separates them in terms of intelligence. If I, as the DM role-played the badger as if it has only a -4 difference in intelligence, then, IMO, I'm doing it wrong!

 

[The Crimson Binome]

IMO, this the roll-playing mindset instead of the role-playing mindset. Which is fine, but not my preference. I find it perfectly acceptable for my players to role-play their ability scores, even if the game "mechanics" don't make much of a difference.

In fact, I think it is implied in the game structure itself. A badger may only have -4 on its intelligence vs a +0 for a commoner, but that is not all that separates them in terms of intelligence. If I, as the DM role-played the badger as if it has only a -4 difference in intelligence, then, IMO, I'm doing it wrong!

The intelligence of a badger is not like the intelligence of a human, though. If you played your Int 2 badger the same way as an Int 2 human, then that would be weird. There are distinctions between the two, which cannot be summed up with simple ability scores. The Intelligence stat is only meant to measure those things to which it actually applies; and in those aspects, the two would perform identically.

Roll-playing should never be at odds with role-playing. The essence of a character should always be in line with the mechanical reflection of that character, and if it isn't, then one or the other should be corrected. Otherwise, it creates issues, when you pretend something is true and yet the reality of the game world contradicts you.

But I don't want to derail another HP thread. This line of conversation is not super relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

IMO, this the roll-playing mindset instead of the role-playing mindset. Which is fine, but not my preference. I find it perfectly acceptable for my players to role-play their ability scores, even if the game "mechanics" don't make much of a difference.

In fact, I think it is implied in the game structure itself. A badger may only have -4 on its intelligence vs a +0 for a commoner, but that is not all that separates them in terms of intelligence. If I, as the DM role-played the badger as if it has only a -4 difference in intelligence, then, IMO, I'm doing it wrong!

Yeah. Either plain old badgers are much more smart in D&D than the real world, or the difference in stats are more outwardly apparent than the percentages suggest.

Anyway, we've discussed this tangent to the point where I'm not even sure what I was trying to say in the first place. @Saelorn, agree to disagree to not further derail the thread?

 

[Campbell]

Step 1. Delete Constitution
Step 2. Constitution Saves Are Now Strength Saves.
Step 3. There Is No Bonus to HP.

 

[cbwjm]

I do wish that they kept the hit point/healing system of 4e, it made 1st level characters tougher, starting with around 20 hit points even with an unexceptional constitution score. It means that PCs have more hit points at lower levels but as they level the Hit point increase is far lower than it is with the current system.

Constitution modifiers had no impact on hit points levelling up but did increase the number of healing surges you could have which gave you greater endurance during the day as you spent them to heal up.

You could probably easily use the current hit die for each class as starting hit points and add their constitution score and then just the average class hit points on level up. Either keep hit dice for healing or switch to surges instead.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I generally like the suggestion, but I would not add Con score.

Out of curiosity, why not? I mean the factor CON represents is certainly there. IMO the bulk of HD is the skill factor that gets added in with every level.

Plus, bloodied Hit points of course.

Yeah, I know you have your BHP LOL! I would just stick to the SW d20 "wounds" or similar as well. We adopted Exhaustion into it and it works well for us. Whenever you take a critical hit, you make a concentration check or gain a level of exhaustion. We used to do it at 0 HP, and are only recently adopting the new rule so we'll have to see how it plays out. I think it should work ok, especially with how we are doing critical hits now.

 

[Mistwell]

Just average the bonus of the two ability scores which you have save proficiency with at first level, and use that as your mod.