[Hivemind] Through the looking glass

[Carnifex]

Still, can you name any Wizards of the Coast prestige classes that use ability score requirements?

Since I don't have all their books, no. And of course, they probably don't use any PRC's with ability score requirements

Nonetheless, I don't think this invalidates their use in an appropriate PrC. After all, people have used all sorts of different prereq's, including many in 3rd party publishers that WotC haven't used, and I don't think that attributes as prereqs is in any way out of line.

Now, if for no good reason you just arbitrarily decided that a PrC needed str 12, dex 13, and int 17, but without much reasoning, that's a bit off - btu for, say, a prc for a god of might, it would reasonable to have a str requirement.

 

[Dragongirl]

Shawn finished the cover. Horacio has the big high res version. Doing the added work to it (logo, iconics, etc) have not been done yet.

 

[Crothian]

This may sound harsh, but I wouldn't consider a Dragon article as necessarily a very good source for guidelines, especially about PrC's... I can think of many, many instances where, in designing a PRC, you might want to use an attribute as a reprequisite.

Well it was written by one or two of the guys who wrote the core rules IIRC

 

[Eternalknight]

Since I don't have all their books, no. And of course, they probably don't use any PRC's with ability score requirements

Nonetheless, I don't think this invalidates their use in an appropriate PrC. After all, people have used all sorts of different prereq's, including many in 3rd party publishers that WotC haven't used, and I don't think that attributes as prereqs is in any way out of line.

Now, if for no good reason you just arbitrarily decided that a PrC needed str 12, dex 13, and int 17, but without much reasoning, that's a bit off - btu for, say, a prc for a god of might, it would reasonable to have a str requirement.

The class in this case (a Skald, or barbarian bard) had Chrisma 13 and Strength 13.

 

[Carnifex]

Well it was written by one of tow of the guys who wrote the core rules IIRC

It doesn't mean they don't make bad calls. Again, I see no reason why attribute scores shouldn't be used for PrC prereq's (admittedly I don't think they're needed for all, or even teh bulk of, PrC's) other than 'they haven't used 'em before'.

 

[Eternalknight]

I just looked up the article (it's in Dragon 274). It is written by Monte Cook.

 

[Carnifex]

The class in this case (a Skald, or barbarian bard) had Chrisma 13 and Strength 13.

Hmm. In that case, I agree that the attributes may not be neccessary prereqs.

It depends on whether becoming a skald requires the joining of a group - ie if others have to look the character over and judeg him, as it were. From what I know of the concept of a skald though, they shouldn't have any attribute requirements.

So ultimately I agree with you on this one

 

[Crothian]

It doesn't mean they don't make bad calls. Again, I see no reason why attribute scores shouldn't be used for PrC prereq's (admittedly I don't think they're needed for all, or even teh bulk of, PrC's) other than 'they haven't used 'em before'.

The idea is that the prerequites to Prestige Classes should be character choices, like skills, feats, class abilities. THese are things the character can easily attain through character advancement. However, attributes are pretty well set at first level. You get a few bonuses here and there and 9th level spells to alter them, but mostly they are pretty well set.

 

[Dragongirl]

I don't see a problem with using ability stats as a requirement Monte Cook or no Monte Cook. It doesn't affect game balance, so I don't see the issue.

 

[Carnifex]

The idea is that the prerequites to Prestige Classes should be character choices, like skills, feats, class abilities. THese are things the character can easily attain through character advancement. However, attributes are pretty well set at first level. You get a few bonuses here and there and 9th level spells to alter them, but mostly they are pretty well set.

Again, I can give examples of situations where entry into a PrC requiring ability scores of a certain level would be perfectly justified and in character. PrC's can well be character choices, but if (for example) the Flame Hawk captain you've applied to join the Mage Knights to sets you to a physical test and you don't pass the benchmark because you're not strong enough, then havign a strength prereq is valid.