D&D 5E Hoard of the Dragon Queen question. (spoilers)

[KarinsDad]

Or teach them to learn Fly and Feather Fall with future PCs.

Actually, one thing you could do is have the crash result in a huge amount of damage (save for half). PCs are flung all over the place and the ones still conscious have mere moments to save their PC allies (who might be a hundred feet or more away). Alternatively, you could throw out the stupid idea of the module designer (who apparently never thought that PCs would want to survive a falling castle) and give the PCs their own flying castle.

Just because it is written down in a module does not mean that it is a good idea to use what is written.

 

[MerricB]

The main ways I can think of to survive the crash:
* Use the wyverns to fly away (see sidebar page 74)
* Use the magic items Rath Modar is carrying
* Befriend the white dragon and hitch a lift
* Use the PC's own magic

Notice that nowhere in the adventure does it say the crash kills anyone aboard. It may be eminently survivable; this is up to the DM to judge. (A section on the crashed castle unfortunately was cut from Rise of Tiamat for space reasons). The actual speed of the castle isn't given except for ascending/descending, which is at 10 feet per round... not really very fast.

Cheers!

 

[garnuk]

The giant crashes the castle into the side of a mountain, near the giant homeland, but it doesn't move at such a great speed that the castle is destroyed. (Remember the giant wants to use the castle to fight dragons in the future, even if he is dead) The players should survive the crash if they don't have a way to get off of it and take a max of about 3d6 damage from the sudden stop at the end.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Even without Fly/Feather Fall/Conjure Giant Owl, you can use Blade Ward/Barbarian Resistance/Death Ward/Stoneskin to cut falling damage from 70 to 35 and stagger away. Everybody loves to joke about falling from orbit and surviving--your PCs will actually get to do it!

 

[jayoungr]

Alternatively, you could throw out the stupid idea of the module designer (who apparently never thought that PCs would want to survive a falling castle) and give the PCs their own flying castle.

The castle crash is only one possible outcome of the scenario--it's not mandated by the designer. Other possibilities include making an alliance with the cloud giant who owns the place and getting him to go where you want, or learning to use the control runes to steer the castle. But if you kill the cloud giant who owns the place (as the OP's party did), his spirit takes over as the force keeping the castle afloat; said spirit is naturally angry at the people who killed it, so it wants to crash the castle as revenge. I suppose the PCs could also try to placate it somehow, but they'd have to work fast!

 

[KarinsDad]

The castle crash is only one possible outcome of the scenario--it's not mandated by the designer. Other possibilities include making an alliance with the cloud giant who owns the place and getting him to go where you want, or learning to use the control runes to steer the castle. But if you kill the cloud giant who owns the place (as the OP's party did), his spirit takes over as the force keeping the castle afloat; said spirit is naturally angry at the people who killed it, so it wants to crash the castle as revenge. I suppose the PCs could also try to placate it somehow, but they'd have to work fast!

Yes, I am aware of that. I was merely pointing out that having the castle crash with the PCs in it and having them die is not necessarily conducive to a fun adventure. Something the module designer should have figured out on his own.

 

[jayoungr]

Yes, I am aware of that.

Ah, okay. It sounded like you thought there was no way for the PCs to get control of the castle.

I was merely pointing out that having the castle crash with the PCs in it and having them die is not necessarily conducive to a fun adventure. Something the module designer should have figured out on his own.

As [MENTION=3586]MerricB[/MENTION] noted above, though, the module says nothing about the PCs dying if the castle crashes. They have (rightly, IMHO) left it up to the DM to decide what happens in such a case. It seems likely that the intent is for the PCs to survive, though, since the designer hopes they will be going on to play Rise of Tiamat after this.

 

[KarinsDad]

They have (rightly, IMHO) left it up to the DM to decide what happens in such a case.

I think the exact opposite. If there is a likely scenario that could possibly result in PC death (i.e. the castle crashing), give some options as to how the DM might want to handle it. Don't expect new DMs (a portion of the HotDQ audience) to just figure it out on their own.


Hoard is not a very well polished adventure. It has a lot of gaping holes. This just happens to be one of many.

It's almost as if the writers were actually playing their own version of 5E Hoard as a home adventure and took some occasional notes that they then cobbled together into a book.

I know that our DM at the time was not impressed by HotDQ and when I took over, I understood why.

 

[jayoungr]

I think the exact opposite. If there is a likely scenario that could possibly result in PC death (i.e. the castle crashing), give some options as to how the DM might want to handle it. Don't expect new DMs (a portion of the HotDQ audience) to just figure it out on their own.

Er, why not? It's the end of the adventure. If there was ever a time to give the DM license to decide what's most appropriate given everything that has happened up to that point, the end of the adventure is it. Every group is going to have its own unique story up to that point and its own unique set of circumstances at the time the castle crashes (if it does). I think even a DM who started off as a complete newbie with chapter 1 of HotDQ can be trusted to come up with an appropriate way of handling what his/her group does in the concluding scene of the adventure.

I know that our DM at the time was not impressed by HotDQ and when I took over, I understood why.

Yes, I know that you feel the adventure has little if anything to recommend it. Sorry it didn't work out for your group. Mine, on the other hand, is having an absolute blast with it (we just finished Castle Naerytar), and I'm not changing as much as you might think.

***

Notice that nowhere in the adventure does it say the crash kills anyone aboard. It may be eminently survivable; this is up to the DM to judge. (A section on the crashed castle unfortunately was cut from Rise of Tiamat for space reasons). The actual speed of the castle isn't given except for ascending/descending, which is at 10 feet per round... not really very fast.

I seem to remember that some of the artwork (maybe a map?) from this cut section was floating around the net somewhere; does anyone know where it can be found?

 

[KarinsDad]

Er, why not? It's the end of the adventure.

No. It's the end of the module. I suspect that at most tables, that was not the end of the adventure.

If there was ever a time to give the DM license to decide what's most appropriate given everything that has happened up to that point, the end of the adventure is it. Every group is going to have its own unique story up to that point and its own unique set of circumstances at the time the castle crashes (if it does). I think even a DM who started off as a complete newbie with chapter 1 of HotDQ can be trusted to come up with an appropriate way of handling what his/her group does in the concluding scene of the adventure.

No doubt. Nothing wrong with letting each DM decide what to do. The problem comes in when you sideswipe a new DM (or even an experienced DM) with PC death for doing things that PCs generally do. I even have no problem with PC death, just have ways in the module that if the players play their PCs the way PCs are often played, give them ways to avoid that death.

The issue is not that PCs can die, the issue is that the module designers were totally silent on it when they are the ones who have this massive death trap in their module.

Yes, I know that you feel the adventure has little if anything to recommend it. Sorry it didn't work out for your group. Mine, on the other hand, is having an absolute blast with it (we just finished Castle Naerytar), and I'm not changing as much as you might think.

Actually, we had an absolute blast as well. Our DM just chucked out about half of the adventure.

When I took over, I basically used the adventure sites as location pieces. I changed practically everything else (I kept the cult, but drastically changed how the PCs interacted with them) and threw in a bunch more stuff (i.e. other places to adventures and other NPCs/monsters to meet). It's all good.